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Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

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Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#311
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and, in fact, that's also what you'd get if you taught everyone how to program Python in high school instead of Excel. You'd get tens of millions of non-interoperable messes of programs (which still get the job done!). That's exactly what happened with Perl when everyone learned to use, modify, and develop CGI scripts in the early days of web-based application development. Dynamically-generated website content wor…

I personally think that a lot of notoriety from Perl stemmed from insane overuse of regular expressions. I'm not talking simple and concise expressions doing ordinary useful things, but rather insanely long and intricate ones which one had to be at a god-expert-level on regex just to attempt to understand. These kinds of expressions are what ultimately caused the derisive terming of Perl as "line noise". It was reall…

> I personally think that a lot of notoriety from Perl stemmed from insane overuse of regular expressions.

The problem was that Perl's performance on builtins(sorting and regular expressions in particular) was stunningly good while its performance on anything else was stunningly bad.

The idea that you would Decorate-Sort-Undecorate an enormous array because the overhead of passing a function to sort() was so much slower was ridiculous.

In the case of regexes, breaking apart the regex into readable chunks and processing the data multiple times was so much slower that everybody piled everything into the regex. Named captures didn't appear until 2007.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#313
"Keep checking plurals readers tell headline writers" springs to mind as a response!

But, joking aside, Excel is the most amazingly useful and adaptable tool but it's incredible how many obvious improvements have been left out. Parts of it are stuck in the stone age. As others have mentioned, version control and information flow are hugely limited with it and there's a real feeling that it went backwards for things like charting (I suspect it's partly that other methods are now more intuitive). And why on earth don't they do something (anything) to make pressing F1 not be such an annoying experience...

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#314
> “You’re still going to use Excel for the things you’re not using a tailored solution for,” he said.

I was shocked to hear about my old company still using Excel heavily for key business operations. I think those are the ones that should be replaced by bespoke software.

On the other hand what likely happens is you need a way to quickly perform some analytical task and your company doesn't have the process or speed to whip up some software quickly. After seeing how a lot of Fortune 500 companies work I'm not sure they ever will with compliance and other regulations in the way.

Excel is very accessible and will probably be the way businesses whip up analyses in the face of business fire-drills unless they have software engineers embedded in their teams or they get their current staff to learn how to code.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I consulted at a health insurance company (a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee with 1000 employees, 200 IT staff) about 10 years ago, I was absolutely horrified that the system of record for health care plan data was Excel spreadsheets. They had staff who would update the claims processing system based on thousands of spreadsheets. When you called customer service, the CSR app would auto-open the member's plan inf…

There are upsides to excel in cases like that… The health insurance people of various sorts who use this setup are the ones with domain knowledge. With an excel program, they can (1) understand how it works (2) add to it, modify it (3) create a copy and break it (4) debug it (5) have ideas about how it could work differently… I’m not saying that excel is the tool for the job (sounds like it is definitely not), and th…

One other point is let's say you do create some fancy new system to handle the task. It's likely going to erode and be surpassed by new computing technology at which point you're looking at an expensive legacy migration which could prove to be costly and you have the same downsides you mentioned.

Excel upgrades don't seem to break previous files as severely and have the backing of Microsoft.

I can't believe I'm defending Excel.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are upsides to excel in cases like that… The health insurance people of various sorts who use this setup are the ones with domain knowledge. With an excel program, they can (1) understand how it works (2) add to it, modify it (3) create a copy and break it (4) debug it (5) have ideas about how it could work differently… I’m not saying that excel is the tool for the job (sounds like it is definitely not), and th…

"If the excel team was blessed with a plague of inspiration tomorrow morning, Is there a way they could make it so that excel is the right way to manage an insurance business?" What a professional software developer's workflow has and Excel lacks: * principled way of sharing code across a team with distributed source control (or similarly powerful tool), * automated regression tests, * input validation, * continuous…

Integrated version control is one of the biggest things I wish they included in Excel rather than relying on an external system to do it.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#317
post #22

The phrases "avoid data silos" and "we want single source of truth" have been used repeatedly about Excel misuse/abuse/overuse for 20+ years. The WSJ story talks about the complaint but not about the underlying tension between data redundancy vs data manipulation. Excel endures because it's the non-programmer's REPL for data. Like a Lisp REPL, using Excel is nimble and has an instant feedback loop. Click "A-Z" to sor…

> There isn't an IT department in the world that can develop centralized IT solutions fast enough to keep up with the ways employees slice & dice data. That's why Excel is "overused". It wasn't very long ago that I realized that my two decades in IT could be summed up as: making proper applications out of Excel workbooks with feeble macros. I hate Microsoft as much as the next Linux zealot, but dang if they didn't cr…

How did you build that career if you don't mind me asking? I've moved on from that stuff in my early career but would love to get back into it.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#318
post #18

I would argue that the most commonly used programming language is Excel. But few of the people using it realize they're programming. It's a brilliant reactive data programming model that makes intuitive sense to non-technical users. They feel empowered to use it to solve problems right now with a computer. They experiment with it, try things, Google how to do more things- just like any programmer does. And they feel…

> reactive data programming model

Can we say "one way dataflow constraint system"? They're even called "spreadsheet constraints"...

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#320
As someone in a systems / ops engineering role it frustrates me endlessly when someone sends me information / data in the form of an excel spreadsheet or a word document.

My only are the applications slow and buggy (unless I’m guessing you’re running Windows?) the file format is very hard to work with / from if you want to do anything with it outside the vendors application, data quickly becomes stale and it’s not easy to populate automatically using standard tooling let alone share the information generated there from in an accessible, digestible format.

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