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Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

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Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#311

Post by p49k »

andrepd wrote: post #306
JonFish85 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative." This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majori…

That's smoke and mirrors. What guarantees you that Apple isn't collecting your location right now ? It's proprietary software, so you wouldn't know, and it's perfectly within the terms of their EULA. You're just gonna trust that they don't (even though they are a business and that can potentially make them more money)? Or are you gonna know your phone isn't spying in you by installing free software on your device?

If we only made decisions based on whether we could absolutely be sure of something with 100% certainty, we would all be paralyzed. Until a fully open-source phone is released that is comparable in quality to an iPhone, we can look at all of the available data and make reasonable decisions.

Aside from Apple’s strong stance and history of protecting the privacy of users, we also have security researchers MITM’ing the traffic sent from iOS devices to Apple, and every jailbreak gives an opportunity to look deeper; if they were acting badly, someone would find that out soon enough.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#312

Post by posixplz »

smueller1234 wrote: post #254
ATsch wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar measures have been implemented in a number of european countries for years, I think originally in France. As far as I am aware, GDPR only standardises these laws and applies them to all EU states. Plus it adds a fine large enough for companies to actually care.

The fines are indeed substantial: up to 4% of annual turnover. On top of thay they can force you to shut down the service in question until remediated. For an e-commerce company that can be even worse than the 4%. Being fully compliant with GDPR is a mountain of work even if you thought you were doing all the right things before. In practice, small companies/ start-ups might not be audited / reported / pursued very m…

The fine is actually 4% of global annual revenue, or EUR100,000, whichever is greater.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#313

Post by commentonswish »

dTal wrote: post #272
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using F-Droid and Yalp and avoiding the Google Play Store is only an option if your needs are very limited. As far as I know, there are no widely-adopted mobile payment apps anywhere else, certainly the de facto standard mobile payment app in my country is only available on the official app stores. The same goes for banking apps and all official store membership and coupon apps, just to mention a few categories of ap…

>de facto standard mobile payment Is called cash :) It's accepted everywhere. >official store membership and coupon apps Should all be burned anyway. Plastic cards and bits of paper worked fine for decades, you don't suddenly need to run arbitrary code on my pocket supercomputer. >banking apps Safer to use the website. My bank authenticates you by having you enter your PIN into a card reader - although they have crea…

> Is called cash :) It's accepted everywhere.

Surprisingly, it’s not!

A non-Swedish friend studying in Sweden recently told me of a situation (I forget the exact details) where she could not pay with cash. They only accepted payment via Swish[^1] (mobile payment system).

At the time she was with a Swedish friend which was the one to pay for both of them, with my friend paying her friend in cash.

[^1]: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cash...

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#314

Post by ufo »

Angostura wrote: post #305
bovermyer wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much rather have a "feature" phone or no mobile at all than have an iPhone again, even if it were free. Living in a walled garden to escape prying eyes is sacrificing freedom for security.

Which freedoms are in practice giving up? The freedom to run Apps that could circumvent the protections put in place to protect your privacy and data?

The freedom to run GPL-ed software, for instance (the APP store terms of service are incompatible)

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#315

Post by cptskippy »

kerberos84 wrote: post #266
halflings wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said they are using or selling it? This is literally from the article: > “In January of this year, we began looking into using Cell ID codes as an additional signal to further improve the speed and performance of message delivery,” the Google spokesperson said in an email. “However, we never incorporated Cell ID into our network sync system, so that data was immediately discarded, and we updated it to no longer r…

Ah, of course we should believe the google spokesperson.

I don't think we should trust any of the big tech companies with our data. We should instead accept that anything we share with them is not necessarily private.

Despite Apple positioning itself as the privacy minded company righteously protecting your personal information, they still share it with 3rd parties to implement products like Siri. They're very secretive and don't talk about that fact and they only begrudgingly admit it when something like a data leak occurs. Do we have any transparency into those companies that Apple is sharing data with? What standard does Apple hold them to with regards to protecting that data? No one knows because Apple won't say.

Apple's stance on security and privacy is as much theater as it is truth. They're in the business of selling you a product and to make it appealing.

The sad fact is they could tell you the new iPhone 11 allows you to fart rainbows but only if no one is looking and people would believe it.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#316

Post by chrisper »

dingo_bat wrote: post #279
maccard wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I simply cannot spend that kind of money and put up with weird compromises like no haedphone jack or no fingerprint reader That category no longer applies solely to apple. Google's flagship phone [0] is just as expensive as Apple's, has no headphone jack and no fingerprint reader. [0] https://store.google.com/product/pixel_2

Pixel 2 has a fingerprint reader. Although it has it on the back. However, the phone looks very cheap and dated. I'd be willing to get an iPhone over that :P

The iPhone 8 looks quite dated as well, though.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#317

Post by chrisper »

Tepix wrote: post #50
mindB wrote: post #17

Another reason to order a Librem 5. https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Or - available right now - a Google Pixel phone with Copperhead OS https://copperhead.co/android/store

Hmm.. this is the first time I heard of it. Maybe I will give it a try. After all LineageOS does not work on Pixel yet I think

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#318

Post by piyush_soni »

firethief wrote: post #222
heimidal wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take your point, but I think it’s important to note that the iPhone SE is half that price. In India, it’s about $309 today.

For comparison, you can get an Android in India for $5.

Unless it's sarcasm, I don't know which phone you're talking about.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#319

Post by eh78ssxv2f »

ams6110 wrote: post #170
eknkc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tell all my friends / family to get an iPhone if they are upgrading. I used iOS and Android phones and I like both. However it makes even me nerveous to use a banking application or similar on an Android. Can’t imagine what kind of shit my dad would have running on an Android device with all the fake fishing apps, bloatware, tracking etc going around. With a non jailbroken iPhone I have a lot more peace of mind.

I have an Android phone, but I would never use it (or an iPhone for that matter) to log into my bank account.

Is there a reason to believe that mobile ecosystem is more unsafe than the desktop ecosystem?

I would argue it the other way round. On mobile (Android or iOS), apps have much fewer permissions compared to on desktop. e.g., one app can't look into the data of the other app. On desktop, it is possible to write a binary which steals user cookies (e.g., https://github.com/rash2kool/cookie_stealer). For all purposes, the binary would be legitimate, and no antivirus or OS APIs would mark the binary as bad.

However, on mobile, one app can't peek into the private data of the other app. So, the Uber app can't peek into my browser cookies.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#320

Post by fauigerzigerk »

p49k wrote: post #311
andrepd wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's smoke and mirrors. What guarantees you that Apple isn't collecting your location right now ? It's proprietary software, so you wouldn't know, and it's perfectly within the terms of their EULA. You're just gonna trust that they don't (even though they are a business and that can potentially make them more money)? Or are you gonna know your phone isn't spying in you by installing free software on your device?

If we only made decisions based on whether we could absolutely be sure of something with 100% certainty, we would all be paralyzed. Until a fully open-source phone is released that is comparable in quality to an iPhone, we can look at all of the available data and make reasonable decisions. Aside from Apple’s strong stance and history of protecting the privacy of users, we also have security researchers MITM’ing the…

I agree that asking for 100% guarantees isn't useful. Realistically, the danger with Apple is that its absolute power over what regular users can install on their iOS devices is easily exploited by governments.

If some surveillance happy government bans some VPN software then Apple is going to enforce that ban much more thoroughly than Google or Microsoft ever could.

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