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Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

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Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#311
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everything open source" would take away the incentive for people to create essentially all media professionally: software, music, TVs/movies, podcasts, journalism, and more. Many industries would be destroyed if they didn't have the right to sell their creations (if anyone could copy them and give them away). I personally enjoy the media created by many organizations such as NPR, which made the article we're reading…

because good music, games, journalism, and useful algorithms didn't arrive in humanity until the invention of (EDIT) intellectual property law

You are ignoring technological change over time. As you go back in time, the time and effort to make copies goes up, the costs of distribution goes up, and the speed of distribution goes down. All of those raise the natural advantage that the original producer has over copiers.

For example, when Charles Dickens was writing and publishing his novels in serial form in magazines he didn't have any significant problem with unauthorized copies in the United States even though at the time the United States copyright law did not cover imported foreign works such as his.

That was because by the time the unauthorized publishers got a hold of the next chapter and could get started with the typesetting for making their own copies, the authorized copies for the United States were already sailing across the Atlantic. They makes of unauthorized copies would have to wait for another transatlantic sailing to get theirs to the US.

The result was Dickens' authorized copies were the only ones available in the US for something like a month or so. By the time unauthorized copies could make it over, something like 95% of the people who were interested in the story had already read it in the authorized magazine.

Google "The Uneasy Case for Copyright" and you can find an essay by United States Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer written in 1970, when he was still an academic, arguing that these kind of natural advantages of being first to market had generally been enough incentive for creators. There have been a couple essays in response too, which should show up on that search.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#312
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What're the benefits of newer models in terms of daily usage?

Comfort. In the grain business my tractors don't get anywhere near daily usage, but when their window of usefulness opens, the days are long and the longer you can handle keeping the machine rolling the better. Not all of the advancements are directly related to computers, but they sort of come part and parcel at this point.

Gotcha, thanks

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some farmers want to change engine curve profiles to get more power out of their engines, likely at the expense of Tier IV emissions regulations and possibly damaging the drivetrain. I don't believe this is the normal case, but I have heard this expressed in the past.

You're quoting the dealer now. Not exactly the most reliable source. There was another article about this a few days ago (it's linked somewhere in one of the comments) and the basic description was "can't do any repairs in place" not "i want to overclock my engine".

No, I'm summarizing my engineer friends and former colleagues within John Deere Power Systems.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#314
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does seems to be John Deere's primary motivation. They make the exact same mechanical machine to serve many different market segments, and then assign each model's capabilities, like horsepower, in software. Of course, the consumer soon figures out that by flipping a couple of bits they can buy the less expensive machine and upgrade it at little to no cost. Thus ensues the debate of who owns the tractor.

> They make the exact same mechanical machine to serve many different market segments Do you know that they do? Parent only talked about running the machine out of spec altogether but your theory could explain a few things if it's true.

I used to work in John Deere Power Systems. The parameterization exists to allow Deere to sell their engines all over the world (different emissions regulations), to a variety of different equipment manufacturers (barges have different power requirements than tractors than cranes than etc). I'm not aware of any "pay to unlock more power" schemes, but I also wasn't particularly attentive toward pricing.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems exactly like the type of situation for which the Librarian of Congress would carve out a DMCA exemption.

Huh, I did not know that Librarian of Congress was actually a title/position.

It is! And our current Librarian, Carla Hayden, is really incredible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Librarian_of_Congress

If I may go into fanboy mode for a moment, I'd like to say that in my opinion the Library itself is one of the crown jewels of the federal government. It is also definitely worth a visit if you're ever in DC. They give free tours of the Jefferson building, and besides the beautiful architecture of the building itself, there are some very interesting exhibits on display. There's a surprising amount to see, and the staff are great- very knowledgable and friendly.

Besides its main missions of supporting congressional research and acting as the central repository library, the LoC also does a ton of great research on media preservation and archival practices... I got to tour one of their labs once- in one room I talked with an expert in the chemistry of inks used in the 18th and 19th centuries, and in the next room heard from other people who specialized in CD and audiotape manufacturing, who could talk about how specific manufacturing plants in Japan changed processes from year to year and how that affected the archival lifetime of their products. Just amazing stuff, and that wasn't even scratching the surface.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're quoting the dealer now. Not exactly the most reliable source. There was another article about this a few days ago (it's linked somewhere in one of the comments) and the basic description was "can't do any repairs in place" not "i want to overclock my engine".

No, I'm summarizing my engineer friends and former colleagues within John Deere Power Systems.

Even worse ;)

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#317

I think we'd all be better off if basically everything was open source, by way of eliminating intellectual property protections provided by governments. As an alternate solution, those of us with engineering skills can work to create an open source economy with open source factories, computers, and products. This would never be a problem nor would it be likely to happen if genuinely competitive options existed for fa…

Yes, people seriously underestimate the damage done by carrying over the near-absolute monopolies granted by copyright, which were originally intended for superfluous creative works. A good compromise may be that software is only eligible for legal protections like copyright if it's source is registered with the Copyright Office, and then the scope of that copyright would limit the commercial resell for 10 years, but…

> Yes, people seriously underestimate the damage done by carrying over the near-absolute monopolies granted by copyright, which were originally intended for superfluous creative works.

Explain the use of "superfluous" in that sentence, please.

> One example: copies of content kept in RAM qualify as infringing copies under the Copyright Act. Judges have been lamenting that in their decisions since the first one, but they feel the law must be interpreted that way. This has a lot of complicated consequences, and it's just a single example of how our technology law is badly damaged and needs repair.

Can you give some examples of judges lamenting that?

I don't see why you think this particular thing needs repair. Generally programmers and engineers do consider a program loaded into RAM to be a copy of the program. Copyright law uses a fairly simple, common sense definition of "copy" which generally includes things that most people would consider copies. So, we end up with programs in RAM being copies of the program on disk from which they were loaded.

But we don't want running a program that you have a legitimate authorized copy of on your disk to require extra permission from the copyright owner, so we need to find a way to make doing so not count as a violation of the copyright owner's copying right.

There are two ways to do that.

One way would be to change the definition of "copy" so as to not include it.

Another way would be to add a specific limitation on the copyright owner's exclusive rights that says they are not applicable in this case.

The first approach, changing the definition of "copy", is bad. First of all, it makes the legal term "copy" further diverge from the English term "copy", and in this particular case from what programmers and engineers mean when they say "copy". Second, nearly everything in copyright law depends on knowing what a copy is, so adding complexity to the definition to deal with one special case complicates almost everything.

The second approach addresses the particular problem at hand, and does not leak complexity into other parts of the law.

We went with the second approach. See 17 USC 117, "Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs" for details.

That's the approach for most special cases in the Copyright Act. Section 101 gives broad definitions, usually reasonably well aligned to the common understanding of the terms. Section 106 gives the copyright owner certain exclusive rights. Then there are a bunch of sections that reign in those rights somewhat, for example with fair use in section 107, library use in 108, and first sale in 109.

If we tried to handle all of that by diddling with the definition of "copy" to make doing those things not involve copies the law would end up ridiculously complicated.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the legal encumbrances were way too high to be able to successfully operate without raising a lot of money just to pay lawyers. Were these standard encumbrances that hardware and software makers put to try and lockdown their products, or was there something special about farming?

It was, for the most part, regular DRM and proprietary data/hardware format stuff that is common across industries. The very high cost of the equipment if it were bricked for license violation, and the very narrow windows for being able to use the equipment (if you need to call John Deere and have them re-enable your tractor you've just potentially lost out on an entire seasons revenue) were also big factors. Many of…

Thank you for the really interesting comments!

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#319
post #108

I think we'd all be better off if basically everything was open source, by way of eliminating intellectual property protections provided by governments. As an alternate solution, those of us with engineering skills can work to create an open source economy with open source factories, computers, and products. This would never be a problem nor would it be likely to happen if genuinely competitive options existed for fa…

OK I've gotta ask, with such a strong push for "eliminating intellectual property protections", why bother with this footer on your site: © 2017 Objective Bias. All rights reserved.

Good call. That was built in to the Ghost template I am using and I never changed it. I've been meaning to update some things on my site so I will relicense as Creative Commons. Thanks for pointing that out!

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#320
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK I've gotta ask, with such a strong push for "eliminating intellectual property protections", why bother with this footer on your site: © 2017 Objective Bias. All rights reserved.

It's a tangent but I'm all for calling out hipocracy. Author should've used Creative Commons or public domain.

I just mentioned above (after your comment) that it's just an oversight. That text was built in to the Ghost template I used and I never bothered to change it. But I absolutely will change it to Creative Commons next time I make updates to the site.
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