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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#311

Post by ComradeTaco »

SmellTheGlove wrote: post #263
ComradeTaco wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a summer working for some very conservative business owners. They asked me what I felt about the great society program during Johnson. I said that I thought it was a fine program that lifted a lot of people out of poverty. The following day they presented me a framed photo of Joseph Stalin. It's not just liberals that can be closed minded.

1. That's really funny, actually, as long as it didn't lead to you being fired or marginalized at work. You can give each other a hard time while still getting along. 2. Was the picture frame any good? Worst case, free frame! 3. OK, serious this time, who brought up politics at work - you or the bosses? I work at a big company and people generally avoid politics and religion, and people do seem to actively pretend th…

1. I thought it was funny too. But they also legitimately believed and expressed that anyone who believed in social welfare was a communist.

2. They took the frame back.

3. They did. I was working at the store as an hourly employee. The customers were generally middle to upper middle class.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#312

Post by admyral »

darkmouth wrote: post #142
Yhippa wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take illegal immigration. Is it wrong for this administration to enforce our current laws? If so maybe the laws need to be crafted to something different. While I don't agree with this administration's methodology this is probably the first time in a while I have seen the reality of our existing laws being executed and now we're seeing the effects of that. I am generally pro-immigration but I like to challenge…

I am a staunch liberal and I don't understand the hostility towards deportation of illegal immigrants either. Calling illegal immigrants undocumented immigrants doesn't make the illegal part go away.

Most can get on board with recognizing the difference between someone who just recently came illegally who might have a criminal record versus someone who is law abiding, has been here for many years, and potentially who has legal family members here. The worry here is the current administration's policy does not distinguish between these two and the goal isn't so much about safety, but is to report high numbers of deportations at all cost.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#313

Post by cocktailpeanuts »

the_gastropod wrote: post #247
camdenlock wrote: post #76

None of this is particularly surprising, but it is sobering to hear it from the horse's mouth. Insane racist sexists didn't win this election for Trump; dogma did. One can no longer openly discuss certain extremely important topics (is there something inherently wrong with Islam as a belief system? Is Black Lives Matter doing good or bad things? Are women really paid less than men for performing the same work?) witho…

> One can no longer openly discuss certain extremely important topics (is there something inherently wrong with Islam as a belief system? Is Black Lives Matter doing good or bad things? Are women really paid less than men for performing the same work?) Some very prominent and (mostly) beloved liberals talk about these things _constantly_. Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, and Salman Rushdie for example, are very…

It's because they are "prominent" liberal people, that's what they are known for.

Not the case for average Joe.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#314

Post by finid »

pklausler wrote: post #166
Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

If your "ideas" are in conflict with facts, get better ideas.

In other words if your "ideas" are "alternative facts", don't act shocked if others disagree with you, even shout you down.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#315

Post by boona »

jstimpfle wrote: post #278
phkahler wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. This comes up from time to time here on HN. I don't buy the whole CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe thing, and I regularly get down votes here if I try to make arguments to the contrary - even science based arguments. I think a lot of people on the left try to hide behind some kind of false consensus as to what is "better", "morally superior", or "factually corr…

What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts? What brings you to the conclusion that global warming could be a hoax? Do you have a reason for not trusting the experts? Who could be intereste…

Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert, wrote an interesting piece on this topic.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/154082416051/the-non-expert-pro...

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#316

Post by intended »

benbenolson wrote: post #156
darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

This is exactly what the current top comment (by shklnrj) is talking about, and is one of the major reasons that Trump got elected. darkmouth here is doubling down on the exact same strategy that lead many away from liberalism this election cycle.

This is patently untrue. All this navel gazing in this thread is bizarre and forgets the past 30 years of political history in America.

You'll (Americans) have long ceased to have a conversation with each other.

People seem to have forgotten the many decades of Fox News (when there was no internet), the steady movement of debate from policy to stuff like "birthers", tea parties, gun boats, creationism, and so on.

The larger debate has been going south for decades. Why do you think people weren't violently sick when a person who would count as a boorish Buffoon 20 years ago, became the republican candidate?

There never was any debate or meeting in the first place!

Today liberals are frightened and incandescently angry. As a result they are turning to the same kind of language and radicalization any group does in such a situation.

People aren't going to be going away from liberalism - they're going to be more militantly liberal in order to meet conservative forces.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#317

Post by douche »

jdblair wrote: post #15

One thing that jumped out for me is the pervasiveness of white fragility. For example: Stop being politically correct. I'm white but I'm not privileged. Stop calling us racists. If you're not familiar with this term, White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress be- comes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger,…

Ah, it's not white privilege anymore, now the term du jour is white fragility. I can't keep up with this stuff...

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#318

Post by freen »

throwaway713 wrote: post #266
pklausler wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your "ideas" are in conflict with facts, get better ideas.

A "fact" is just a statement with a probability distribution attached to it. If your prior is different than someone else's, your posterior is going to be different as well.

What about the probability distribution of the fact that you are a carrot?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#319

Post by jdblair »

camdenlock wrote: post #140
jdblair wrote: post #15

One thing that jumped out for me is the pervasiveness of white fragility. For example: Stop being politically correct. I'm white but I'm not privileged. Stop calling us racists. If you're not familiar with this term, White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress be- comes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger,…

You're being downvoted because it's despicable to create and bandy about a scientific-sounding term like "white fragility" in a conversation that people are sincerely trying to have. You're effectively removing yourself from any such discussion on these topics and creating an image of a psychologist analyzing the others in the discussion. Be part of the conversation, don't just step back and slap passive-aggressive l…

Ok, you object to be using what appears to be a categorical label rather than engaging directly with the comment. That's fair, though "despicable" seems rather judgemental

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#320

Post by rockmeamedee »

harryh wrote: post #18
panic wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be hard to separate criticism from an attack. If you say something racist, and I tell you so, is that an attack?

It depends on how you say it. "You're racist!" is an attack. "That thing you just said was racist." is better but will still come off as an attack. "Have you ever thought about how what you said will impact [minority group]?" will work much better.

What's worse, being a racist or being called a racist?

If it's the former, being called a racist is a valuable thing. It's somebody telling you that you have advertently or inadvertently acted in a manner that is prejudiced against an ethnic group in a way that perpetuates societal imbalances (racism). Now you get an opportunity to fix it.

Apologize, then stop doing what you were called out for. Now you'll neither be a racist or called one.

Great! Everybody wins.

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