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The Problem with AMP

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Re: The Problem with AMP

#311

Post by nrjdhsbsid »

towo wrote: post #308
pawadu wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been tracking their GitHub and what is happening is that while yes, the source is open, they won't let you add anything they don't like. Well, thats basically how Android works. And with the upcoming policy changes (in CDD and GCM) things will get even worse.

It's pretty much how open source works everywhere - you have to convince the maintainer to adopt your code. If they don't, you've got the options of either being sad or forking it and trying to get people to use your subjectively better version. It's open source, not anarchist source.

In the case of AMP the only source that works with google is the official one. As soon as you fork it's not "AMP" compatible anymore.

You see the other half of AMP is completely proprietary and runs on Google's servers. It doesn't matter that you can edit AMP because the server (Google's end) will refuse to run your edited version.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#312

Post by freehunter »

ksk wrote: post #306
freehunter wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think companies rush to use H1B visas and offshore to countries that use (what amounts to) slave labor? Yes, companies do this today. Business ethics counts for nothing if it's not mandated. Compare Walmart's revenue to Whole Foods and you'll see why.

I don't quite understand how you're putting a moral judgement on outsourcing which is simply the purchase of a service. Certainly if a specific company is using slave or even child labor that is terrible and they should be boycotted. There have been several cases of business suffering real consequences. I am sure that they have not escaped your attention. Anyway, its wrong to say business ethics account for nothing.…

Where did I put a moral judgment on all outsourcing? I put a moral judgement on outsourcing to countries that use slave labor, obviously in the context of using slave labor (which is the subject of the thread I'm replying to).

That was entirely clear from my comment, and you deliberately chose to ignore that. I will not apologize or make corrections.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#313

Post by brainfire »

CaptSpify wrote: post #278
applejuicestand wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of internet users are average users. All your concerns are fine but at the end of the day when you want to read the news or whatever, speed matters.

Then why doesn't Google rank speedy pages?

It does, since 2010.

https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2010/04/using-site-speed-i...

Re: The Problem with AMP

#314

Post by saurik »

macandcheese wrote: post #292
saurik wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The website has no way of knowing you did that: this is actually Apple's fault for not changing the logical browser dimensions when you use this feature.

Well, no, it's not - it's just weirdly labeled. Request mobile site is really only applicable to the small amount of websites that serve a m.domain.com. Now, they could have an option to "request desktop SIZE" that would result in sites that are responsively built rendering in "desktop size" mode.

You can argue that any limitation is simply due to the feature being mislabeled, but in this case it seems pretty clear what people both expect this feature to do as currently named, and that happens to match what people also seem to want, and that would include changing the viewport to make certain you actually get the desktop site functionality.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#315

Post by mrkgnao »

akras14 wrote: post #133

I wrote a similar(although not as concise) article about 3 month ago: https://www.alexkras.com/google-may-be-stealing-your-mobile-... After which I was invited to meet Google AMP team and to express my concerns, you can read my Q&A here: https://www.alexkras.com/i-had-lunch-with-google-amp-team/ TLDR; A lot of concerns are getting addressed 1. Minor, but the bar at the top is now scrollable on all devices, including…

Could you not add an explicit link to the article after the title, say, on the AMP pages?

Edit: Ah, yes, your "make the header clickable" fixes this.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#316

Post by CaptSpify »

brainfire wrote: post #313
CaptSpify wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why doesn't Google rank speedy pages?

It does, since 2010. https://webmasters.googleblog.com/2010/04/using-site-speed-i...

I'm not convinced that's still true. Obviously I can't see google-rankings internal stuff, but...

If I search for weather, lyrics, or other common sites, the top results are always slow, bloated, JS-filled nightmares. Yet the sites that are quick and small are never to be found.

Maybe they do and they need to weight speed higher. I don't know, but I know that I don't ever seem to get fast loading results.

This feels too much like creating a problem that you want to be able to step in and solve.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#317

Post by towo »

nrjdhsbsid wrote: post #311
towo wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty much how open source works everywhere - you have to convince the maintainer to adopt your code. If they don't, you've got the options of either being sad or forking it and trying to get people to use your subjectively better version. It's open source, not anarchist source.

In the case of AMP the only source that works with google is the official one. As soon as you fork it's not "AMP" compatible anymore. You see the other half of AMP is completely proprietary and runs on Google's servers. It doesn't matter that you can edit AMP because the server (Google's end) will refuse to run your edited version.

Yes, which is what I implied: open source software is fine and good if it's used in a decentralized fashion.

But if it's just a provider open sourcing the implementation of their communication protocol/operating system running on their devices, it's good for the community that they can look into it and learn; but just as well, it doesn't imply that any of the changes you're able to make actually do anything.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#318

Post by tehlike »

addicted wrote: post #272
tehlike wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i am curious about the numbers, though i do not know internally or externally if there are numbers showing this. As a power android user, i kind of like the rss-reader-esque look and feel of the amp links. It also opens blazing fast. With these in mind, minor inconveniences (like the address bar) are probably something i wouldn't mind.

If only Google had a nice RSS Reader view which was blazing fast, and allowed you to view an uncluttered, non JS version of an article, while still correctly attributing it to the original provider, while making it easy to link to the original source. Such really simple syndication technology could even have a catch TLA. I can't really think of one, but I'm sure there is something.

we had that, it was google reader. rest in peace - i used it a lot back in the day.

That said, i think people disable JS in general for this reason.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#319

Post by ksk »

freehunter wrote: post #312
ksk wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand how you're putting a moral judgement on outsourcing which is simply the purchase of a service. Certainly if a specific company is using slave or even child labor that is terrible and they should be boycotted. There have been several cases of business suffering real consequences. I am sure that they have not escaped your attention. Anyway, its wrong to say business ethics account for nothing.…

Where did I put a moral judgment on all outsourcing? I put a moral judgement on outsourcing to countries that use slave labor , obviously in the context of using slave labor (which is the subject of the thread I'm replying to). That was entirely clear from my comment, and you deliberately chose to ignore that. I will not apologize or make corrections.

Well, I took your comment charitably and addressed the point about individual companies employing abhorrent practices (whether it be labor or otherwise). Obviously, we're not in favor of that.

But your claim seems to be that an entire technological sector spanning multiple countries employs slave labor? Its hard to take you seriously at this point.

Re: The Problem with AMP

#320

Post by alistproducer2 »

amorphid wrote: post #103
alistproducer2 wrote: post #30

I make my own amp pages by keeping JavaScript turned off on my phone. 95℅ of pages work and load instantly. Those that don't, I turn on JavaScript. If I go to those pages a lot I add them to my exception list. Sorry but I'm not an amp believer.

It just took me 8 clicks and a couple swipes to disable JS in my mobile browser, Chrome on Android. Another 8 clicks and couple swipes to enable JS. Is there a faster way to do that?

There's not a faster way, that I'm aware of. That being said, I'm not exaggerating when I say the overwhelming majority of pages just work and the 5-10% that don't you can add them to the exception list (meaning they will run JavaScript) so you won't have to go through those 8 clicks every time.

give a try for a day or so. Once I did, I can't go back to keeping it on because the web seems so slow by comparison.

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