Apropos of this, I was in Paris recently at a startup event, and was pleasantly shocked at the sheer number of startups and people I saw doing things. This is a good move by the French, and will help attract entrepreneurs away from other countries (particularly like those just across the channel currently inflicting generational economic damage on themselves.)
As someone from the UK, my main reason for not moving anywhere else in Europe is the language barrier. I'm not even sure I'm capable of learning another language; 5 years in school trying to learn French + German, and can still only put together about two sentences. From what I remember, no one else seemed to really pick up the languages either.
A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
311–320 of 751 posts
Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
#312As someone who lives in Montreal, that's very strange to see. We import French talent by the hundreds because they are lacking interesting tech jobs over there.
Don't get it wrong, we're not lacking interesting tech jobs at all, we're lacking interesting salaries.
Anyway, most of the tech jobs in France are in the IT service industry, but if you want an attractive salary you need to go to join a software company with a product.
So now you can get a pretty good salary in France as a software engineer, and while it's still lower as a number than in North America if you factor in the social system and the work/life balance it's not a bad deal at all. Just don't go to the service industry.
Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sound like a temp agency, ala Accenture. Does it track market rates? I've worked for a company before that took fresh grads, and relied strongly on them never entering the market for themselves and realising what market rate was .
Yeah, like a temp agency, but we are full employees, which means we are still paid between contracts. The problem is knowing the market rate.
Do you have a period of time you are contracted to work? If you can make friends in the Paris dev community, you might be able to find out how good/bad your pay is.
Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
That sounds like double or triple the amount of tax Americans in a similar role have to pay at home
That works out to 37.5% tax. I paid considerably more than that working in California when you include health insurance.
Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that lowend salaries are comparable but presumably people working on a startup are earning anything but lowend. The social benefits are only worthwhile when you are older (you should have done it the other way around :) ) and you are reminded of the administrative difficulties half the time you use them. Mid-range food may be less expensive here but service is just terrible (well, not 100% of the time but it…
> I thought the AZERTY and QWERTY layouts were about the same if you touchtype. ... and never need a comma, or numbers.
I have a German kezboard (sic) but I run it in US mode. I have no idea how any programmer can use the standard German layout (and many I know use US keyboards).
Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
In France, not necessarily Paris, or most large French cities. > French is the national language And what is the national language of Ireland?
Irish is the national and first official language. Oh, and some of us speak English too. Why?
Don't you mean most?
Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've lived in France and the US. At the lowend salaries are almost the same. In continental Europe its extremely hard to break the 6-figure salary barrier. Now that I'm working back in the US after 12 years abroad I find we're at about the same level if we'd stayed in Paris. Salary is up but so are healthcare costs, childcare costs, transportation. While my effectively salary is double my take home is only 20% higher…
I agree that lowend salaries are comparable but presumably people working on a startup are earning anything but lowend. The social benefits are only worthwhile when you are older (you should have done it the other way around :) ) and you are reminded of the administrative difficulties half the time you use them. Mid-range food may be less expensive here but service is just terrible (well, not 100% of the time but it…
Most startups I know are Ramen noodle phase. Having a bit of govt help would be useful and could definitely help founders hold on to their equity rather than exchange it to pay next months rent.
In the US it's the same. You pay for it, then they guilt you into not using it. And if you need the more extreme help it literally becomes a full time job to wait in line and file paperwork week after week.
I miss the Paris service. You waive them down when you want something. They stay out of your way. Here, they are hovering around constantly asking me if I need anything. I don't think that kind of attention warrants $20 tips. If it came down to it I can pour my own damn drink.
So French Apple keyboards have some fundamental differences with accents. And if you need numbers it's 2 keys as you need to invoke the shift key to the number and calculator functions. And if you have a complex environment, ex. remoting from mac to Linux server good look finding the pipe | key.
Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
#318If you take a look at the french economy, their political system, their tax rates and social security system you don't actually want to work and/or live there as a startup founder, so no need for a visa. Nice try, France. // edit: ah, not to forget about their unwillingness to treat you as human being when not speaking their language.
Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've lived in France and the US. At the lowend salaries are almost the same. In continental Europe its extremely hard to break the 6-figure salary barrier. Now that I'm working back in the US after 12 years abroad I find we're at about the same level if we'd stayed in Paris. Salary is up but so are healthcare costs, childcare costs, transportation. While my effectively salary is double my take home is only 20% higher…
I agree that lowend salaries are comparable but presumably people working on a startup are earning anything but lowend. The social benefits are only worthwhile when you are older (you should have done it the other way around :) ) and you are reminded of the administrative difficulties half the time you use them. Mid-range food may be less expensive here but service is just terrible (well, not 100% of the time but it…
They get away with arguments like "the job is interesting" (probably true compared to IT service industry) and "you'll get rich on stock options if the company get big" (usually a lie).
It's good that the government is trying to encourage foreigners to start their startup in France, but I don't think we're lacking entrepreneurs. We're mostly lacking investors willing to bet on a small, newly created company.
Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed! But then you get great health insurance, good public infrastructure and services, free top-notch education, etc. Basically if you're without any dependent, you may not see it as worth it, but once you have a family it really starts paying off.
People making the kind of money being discussed here, such that you trigger higher bracket income taxes, have great health insurance in the US as well. Further, decent jobs in the US almost always include health insurance compensation above the salary. I have a brother that works in a pretty normal job earning $42,000 per year (not an outsized salary in the US), he pays $27 per month for his health insurance through…
That's like my whole point… You'll effectively get less money than in the US, but you're subsidising a fraternal economy which you enjoy too.