Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience • Hacker News Board

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#311

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 5:58 AM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #257

mzw_mzw wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US corporations have a multi-hundred year history of using thinly veiled proxies for race as part of their hiring practices. This continues to this day, including in the tech industry. That's a pretty serious accusation, one that could spark a lot of successful lawsuits against those companies -- especially in the current political climate in the states they tend to be located in. Do you have any specific evidence…

Google won't you apply to work there without giving your college GPA, despite the fact that all the academic research, and also their own internal research, shows that GPA doesn't correlate at all with job performance. C.f. what Malcom Gladwell has to say about this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLQC3EzDGr4

I don't think Google is asking for GPA anymore. Not for experienced hires, anyway. I can imagine they might still ask it for interns and college hires, where it's relevant. But they didn't ask me two years ago (I was seven years out of university at the time).

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#312

Post by jaredklewis » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:02 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #309

Wow, can't believe I'm seeing people justifying/defending this--on HN of all places! This is unacceptably invasive, and if this is a glimpse of the future of getting a job, we're all in for a lot of trouble. If you think this kind of information is acceptable to monitor/record during an interview, what on earth do you think is off-limits?? Justifying this as "just to make sure people aren't cheating" is like justifyi…

Your comparison isn't fair at all. The interview monitoring is: invasive, but voluntary, only for a short period of time, and for a specific, articulated purpose. The police example is: invasive, as well as involuntary, permanent, and completely unlimited in its scope.

To make a comparison like your comparison: Apple stole $500 from me when I bought my iPhone! Thieves!

Giving something up of your own free will (in exchange for something else), is very different than having it taken from you.

If you disagree, argue with the actual facts of situation.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#313

Post by 0xCAFEFARE » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:08 AM UTC

frakkingcylons wrote: post #242

I went through Amazon's two online tests in October 2016 while interviewing for a full-time position. I took the first test just like the OP, the logical reasoning part seemed kind of irrelevant and a waste of time for me. That was nothing compared to the second online test. The environment of the second test was like a scenario out of Black Mirror. Not only did they want to have the webcam and microphone on the enti…

Creepy. Not a company I would want to work for.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#314

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:11 AM UTC

jaredklewis wrote: post #312

ryandrake wrote: post #309

Wow, can't believe I'm seeing people justifying/defending this--on HN of all places! This is unacceptably invasive, and if this is a glimpse of the future of getting a job, we're all in for a lot of trouble. If you think this kind of information is acceptable to monitor/record during an interview, what on earth do you think is off-limits?? Justifying this as "just to make sure people aren't cheating" is like justifyi…

Your comparison isn't fair at all. The interview monitoring is: invasive, but voluntary, only for a short period of time, and for a specific, articulated purpose. The police example is: invasive, as well as involuntary, permanent, and completely unlimited in its scope. To make a comparison like your comparison: Apple stole $500 from me when I bought my iPhone! Thieves! Giving something up of your own free will (in ex…

From the article, the monitoring is presumably only voluntary insofar as if you don't consent you are guaranteed an unfavorable outcome (you don't get the job). The hypothetical living room camera could be voluntary as well: If you don't consent it's because you're hiding something.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#315

Post by vmarsy » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:12 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #309

Wow, can't believe I'm seeing people justifying/defending this--on HN of all places! This is unacceptably invasive, and if this is a glimpse of the future of getting a job, we're all in for a lot of trouble. If you think this kind of information is acceptable to monitor/record during an interview, what on earth do you think is off-limits?? Justifying this as "just to make sure people aren't cheating" is like justifyi…

> Justifying this as "just to make sure people aren't cheating" is like justifying the police putting a camera in everyone's living room "just to make sure people aren't criminals" or putting a GPS collar on your spouse "just to make sure she's not having an affair". Totally unacceptable.

While you might have good reason to get offended and find this to be a big privacy invasion, probably like 90% of people here, the comparison you use here is invalid. Putting a camera in people living room or a GPS tracker is a permanent surveillance. This in comparison is only for the duration of the exam. In many schools, especially in some cultures where cheating is more common and accepted , there's pretty strict measures implemented for exams, including humans checking all of the same things that tool is checking.

Again, it's definetely a big privacy invasion, but it's Amazon tentative at scaling/automating the first phase of the job interview process. I'm sure anyone with proven credentials could bypass this step, but if it gives a chance to prove one's skills for a job without having any special degree, I'm sure some people would be fine with the temporary privacy invasion.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#316

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:13 AM UTC

vmarsy wrote: post #315

ryandrake wrote: post #309

Wow, can't believe I'm seeing people justifying/defending this--on HN of all places! This is unacceptably invasive, and if this is a glimpse of the future of getting a job, we're all in for a lot of trouble. If you think this kind of information is acceptable to monitor/record during an interview, what on earth do you think is off-limits?? Justifying this as "just to make sure people aren't cheating" is like justifyi…

> Justifying this as "just to make sure people aren't cheating" is like justifying the police putting a camera in everyone's living room "just to make sure people aren't criminals" or putting a GPS collar on your spouse "just to make sure she's not having an affair". Totally unacceptable. While you might have good reason to get offended and find this to be a big privacy invasion, probably like 90% of people here, the…

OK, then we'll turn the camera and GPS on only once in a while, when we have a good reason to make sure things are kosher.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#317

Post by jaredklewis » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:15 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #314

jaredklewis wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comparison isn't fair at all. The interview monitoring is: invasive, but voluntary, only for a short period of time, and for a specific, articulated purpose. The police example is: invasive, as well as involuntary, permanent, and completely unlimited in its scope. To make a comparison like your comparison: Apple stole $500 from me when I bought my iPhone! Thieves! Giving something up of your own free will (in ex…

From the article, the monitoring is presumably only voluntary insofar as if you don't consent you are guaranteed an unfavorable outcome (you don't get the job). The hypothetical living room camera could be voluntary as well: If you don't consent it's because you're hiding something.

Doing something in exchange for a chance to get a job is 100%, completely, in every sense of the term voluntary.

If I don't pay Apple, they won't give me an iPhone. Am I involuntarily paying Apple for my iPhone?

As for the camera, a mafia-esque threat of "if you don't have a camera, we get very suspicious" by a government which has the power to prosecute and put people in jail, is incredibly coercive and horrifying.

Amazon is making you an offer, which if you refuse, leaves you no worse off than the status quo. If you accept their offer, there is potentially a job which you are apparently interested in, since you are applying.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#318

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:21 AM UTC

jaredklewis wrote: post #317

ryandrake wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, the monitoring is presumably only voluntary insofar as if you don't consent you are guaranteed an unfavorable outcome (you don't get the job). The hypothetical living room camera could be voluntary as well: If you don't consent it's because you're hiding something.

Doing something in exchange for a chance to get a job is 100%, completely, in every sense of the term voluntary. If I don't pay Apple, they won't give me an iPhone. Am I involuntarily paying Apple for my iPhone? As for the camera, a mafia-esque threat of "if you don't have a camera, we get very suspicious" by a government which has the power to prosecute and put people in jail, is incredibly coercive and horrifying.…

I'm not saying the conditions are involuntary. I'm saying they are unacceptable.

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#319

Post by donatj » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:28 AM UTC

prodigal_erik wrote: post #271

donatj wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no cheating in programming. This is absurd.

There are definitely people who would hire an expert to pass the test for them if they could get away with it.

I have a friend who outsources his job to India. It's not "cheating".

Re: Software Engineering Internship Amazon Interview Experience

#320

Post by c3534l » Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 6:29 AM UTC

uiri wrote: post #300

c3534l wrote: post #156

I don't really care much about amazon because I hear they monopolize your life and have an aggressive culture. However, I do like me some puzzles: 1. The passage is about the good and bad of fanfiction which is posted on the internet. I pedantically disagree with the exact reading of response 2, but it's the correct one, I believe. 2. Only conclusion 1 is necessarily true, because of the transitive property of inequa…

> 2. Only conclusion 1 is necessarily true, because of the transitive property of inequalities; X ? Y and Z/Y can be rewritten as X It says that the product of X and V is greater than or equal to the sum of X and V. Conclusion 2 is that the sum of X and V is less than the product of X and V. How could the latter claim be false if the former premise is true? I agree with you on 4 and came to it another way: 3^3 : 3 *…

> It says that the product of X and V is greater than or equal to the sum of X and V. Conclusion 2 is that the sum of X and V is less than the product of X and V. How could the latter claim be false if the former premise is true?

Suppose X is 0 and V is 0. The product of X and V is 0 which is indeed less than or equal to 0 - 0 = 0. Substituting V and X both for zero in (V - X) < (V * X) gives us (0 - 0) < (0 * 0) which simplifies to 0 < 0, which is false.