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New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

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Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#311

Post by aufreak3 »

My original reaction to this was "WTF. There should be a class action suit against Apple by developers along the lines of hindering freedom of speech".

... but then, any compiler that can generate the processor's instructions can obviously also be modified to generate Objective-C code. So I guess this will result in all the cross-compilers just changing their target language from llvm or assembly to ... Objective-C.

I can live with that ... and watch Apple slap themselves on their pretty foreheads ... whatever it is they hoped to accomplish in terms of lock-in :)

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#312

Post by access_denied »

raganwald wrote: post #46

Getting away from the frenzied rhetoric, my opinion is that what Apple really wants to prevent is people releasing multi-platform compilers. So taking Flash as just one example, if I can build one app and the compiler can make me an iPhone executable, an Android executable, and so forth, Apple don't want that. In my experience so far with such "cross platform compatibility layers," they always produce results that wa…

But why "Apple want to commoditize applications and lock developers into their APIs."? Because of "especially if it means having apps that don't take advantage of the iPhone's strengths." Apple wants unique killer-apps for iPhone OS, not the Mac version of that Windows program.

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#313

Post by jrockway »

sparky wrote: post #293
jrockway wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and $foo is just C but with $bar.

To be fair, all widely-used C compilers I am aware of have extensions to the C90 and C99 standards, which they accept as conformant code by default.

Sure, and that's fine. What Apple is doing is saying, "you must use C" without actually defining what "C" is.

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#314

Post by lg »

raganwald wrote: post #46

Getting away from the frenzied rhetoric, my opinion is that what Apple really wants to prevent is people releasing multi-platform compilers. So taking Flash as just one example, if I can build one app and the compiler can make me an iPhone executable, an Android executable, and so forth, Apple don't want that. In my experience so far with such "cross platform compatibility layers," they always produce results that wa…

Nah, that's bullshit. Applications written in a higher-level language and compiled down to Obj-C could be a lot better than apps written in straight Obj-C, for the same reason that applications written in Obj-C are better than applications written in straight ARM assembly.

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#315

Post by escoz »

gte910h wrote: post #26
jsz0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Apple doesn't have a monopoly in the phone market.

Yeah, but the timing of the news could possibly end them in court. Had they done this months ago, they'd likely have not had a problem. But 4 days before CS5's release? I could see that adobe has already filed suit.

could apple then sue them back because they're talking about something that is still under nda?

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#316

Post by jrockway »

astrange wrote: post #231
jrockway wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the open source world can successfully fight back, by making compilers that generate code the app store police can't tell from hand written. I think the answer is definitely yes. Apple's software engineering is not that great. There is always some hole in Safari that allows root access to the entire device. They can't get atomic syscalls working in OS X. Does anyone really think they can recruit and affor…

> They can't get atomic syscalls working in OS X. Have you filed a bug?

Nope. I enjoy watching users of proprietary software suffer. Since I don't use OS X, why would I care, anyway?

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#317

Post by tumult »

zefhous wrote: post #305
tumult wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever written software? You'd be surprised what isn't written in C or C++. I bet this clause disqualifies the majority of serious applications in the app store. Anything with a generated parser, for example, can now be rejected. Objective-C is definitely a kiddie language, it's highly dynamic and mostly suitable for creating a OO interface to lower-level code written in C, which is how almost all of OS X and…

My main problem with your comment was that in your anger you seemed to be acting pretty immaturely about the situation. I'm sorry for being harsh. Yes, I'm sure it sucks. Your project is collateral damage from Apple's efforts to thwart Adobe and other makeshift cross-platform efforts that generally create sub-par products. I'm not saying Apple's development tools are perfect or that I like Objective-C, but Apple make…

Easy is not always powerful or expressive.

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#318

Post by joubert »

toluju wrote: post #301
joubert wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, for iPhone/iPad development, you can use C, C++, Objective-C, or JavaScript (4 languages). But on the other platforms you are in reality limited (in practice) to one or two languages? I'm looking at you, Android and BlackBerry. (Windows and Palm don't really count, since nobody's writing for them).

This is hilarious. People have gotten Scala, Ruby, Python, Lua, and a whole host of other languages running on Android. At least check your damn facts before posting bullshit. http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-an...

Sorry for posting bullshit.

Since I don't know much about Android, are there significant apps (in the Android Marketplace) that use some of these languages?

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#319

Post by joubert »

tumult wrote: post #262
joubert wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like what? You can't use Objective-C to do something like that?

I could do it with assembly. But it would be stupid, and wasteful. Objective-C is not the tool for every job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit

Do you have empirical evidence to prove which language(s) are better than C, C++, Objective-C, and JavaScript in creating applications on the iPhone's runtime and UI model?

Re: New iPhone Agreement Bans Flash-to-iPhone Compiler & Others

#320

Post by barrkel »

gabrielroth wrote: post #300
gromitski wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but that is a terrible excuse for what they've done. As a flash developer hit hard by the recession, having another (strong) string in my bow was essential for survival. Like others in my industry, I don't have time to completely re-train every time a new product comes onto the market. Being able to produce for a different device using my current skills is a blessing. Apple should be thoroughly ashamed with…

I sympathize with your economic plight. But the fact that you're having a hard time making a living using Flash doesn't give Apple the obligation to provide you with a development platform. Since the iPhone has less than 20 percent of the smartphone market, it seems unlikely that the Monopolies Commission will be interested.

Apple isn't obliged to actively deprive people of development platforms either.
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