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The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

nicholaswindsorhoward.com

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Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#311

Post by verisimilidude »

phoboslab wrote: post #33
56k wrote: post #28

This article doesn't make any sense. The use of metaphors worked when people didn't know what a computer was, and the only way to make its UI make sense was to mimic real-world objects. Now, this is no longer necessary. It's been 40 years. While I agree that new macOS icons aren't great (see the Game Center icon), the old ones were silly. I'm 35 and I have probably seen an actual contact book only once when I was lit…

> I'm 35 and I have probably seen an actual contact book once when I was little. It doesn't make sense to have a skeuomorphic contact book as an icon for Contacts. There was a rhetoric not too long ago where OSx fanboys would make fun of Windows' interfaces for still using the disk icon as the "save" button. Now that guy is complaining that the photos app icon doesn't look like a Point And Shoot camera, when fewer an…

> Skeuomorphism doesn't make sense anymore when the real world items it's based on are vanishing.

Does that really matter? A perfect case in point was the old Pages icon in OS X: a quill pen in front of a cup of ink. Do you know any person who has ever used a pen like that in real life? Have you ever even seen a pen like that? I'm willing to guess not. But everyone still recognized the contents of that icon, and correctly inferred that the app was for writing things.

Furthermore, the use of ye olde imagery in that icon was playful, like the app was inviting you to an older time when writing was simpler and you could just focus on your words. The app was aiming for that kind of simplicity too. The use of way outdated imagery in the icon did not prevent Apple from conveying deep meaning to a modern audience. If anything, it enhanced the point they were trying to make with that icon.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#312

Post by marbletiles »

56k wrote: post #28

This article doesn't make any sense. The use of metaphors worked when people didn't know what a computer was, and the only way to make its UI make sense was to mimic real-world objects. Now, this is no longer necessary. It's been 40 years. While I agree that new macOS icons aren't great (see the Game Center icon), the old ones were silly. I'm 35 and I have probably seen an actual contact book only once when I was lit…

> I'm 35 and I have probably seen an actual contact book only once when I was little.

This just seems weird to me. Contacts books were replaced in a very limited way by PDAs for early adopters, but it wasn't until smartphones and their easy address books that they really started to die off. So post-2008, really.

Were you not in professional settings until your late 20s? Still be surprised if you are both 35 and genuinely unaware of what an address book is.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#314

Post by yoz-y »

vetinari wrote: post #258
yoz-y wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for running circles around people while using a GUI, while I accept there are specialised fields and exceptions that disprove the rule, outside of marketing presentations I just don't see it happen. As much as any generalisation can be valid, the GUI does not run circles around anyone that can actually program and is generally the mark of the computer novice/consumer... I wonder. Every time I see a colleague usi…

Your colleague doesn't use completion? To me, using CLI is like having a conversation, with much richer vocabulary, than GUI. That's just pointing at things.

Of course they do, but typing stuff is just physically slower for some operations. Typing git log, then scrolling through the pages of text in order to find the interesting change will always be slower than a right click -> log and then "pointing at things".

I think your conversation metaphor is good, but in a GUI the answer can be richer and interactive. A CLI can only manipulate text, a GUI can manipulate text where necessary and use a better medium (images, graphs, tables) where necessary.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#315

Post by josho »

flohofwoe wrote: post #167

The article misses the mark IMHO by focusing on skeuomorphic(sp?) icons. Yes, usability has degraded during the recent 'flat design' craze, but not so much because skeuomorphism was tossed out, but because the many little visual design changes that kill discoverability. The mobile operating systems started this trend where a lot of advanced functionality was hidden behind 'magic' touch and swipe gestures that go way…

I don't like change for the sake of change either, as that is just setting trends to help sell more product (e.g. the bi-annual iPhone case redesign). But, the OS changes you highlighted all have real benefits that move the focus from screen widgets to the actual content.

> - buttons are often indistinguishable from non-interactive label, leading to idiotic trial and error clicking to find out which UI elements do something

How come everyone understands hyperlinks on the web, but when the OS follows the same pattern you can't figure it out? I know a few apps have gotten this wrong on occasion, but as long as the text for an action is coloured differently than regular text then it's pretty obvious.

> scroll-bars that are hidden by default, loosing the information how far I am into a document (OSX)

On small screens (remember macbook airs are only 11" screens which I consider small) this saves precious screen space. If you really need to know where you are in a doc, resting your fingers on the trackpad and moving slightly brings the bar back. I thought this was a brilliant design to reduce clutter on the screen, not unlike how our browsers have been reducing their chrome to give the content more room.

I'm all for removing clutter from my screen if it helps me focus on the content.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#316

Post by hvmonk »

56k wrote: post #28

This article doesn't make any sense. The use of metaphors worked when people didn't know what a computer was, and the only way to make its UI make sense was to mimic real-world objects. Now, this is no longer necessary. It's been 40 years. While I agree that new macOS icons aren't great (see the Game Center icon), the old ones were silly. I'm 35 and I have probably seen an actual contact book only once when I was lit…

Re: safari hiding urls, click on Preference->Advanced-> And, check the box for "Smart Search Field" to see the complete url. It should be checked by default and I found it annoying too.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#317

Post by vbezhenar »

tcfunk wrote: post #209

For me, the biggest issue with the past 2 or 3 OS X updates hasn't been the interface at all. I can get used to a new interface, that's not a problem. The real problem (imo) is the lack of meaningful updates to the OS. EVERYTHING is an aesthetic change, or some new Siri or iPhone integration. Does anyone actually start an email on their phone and finish it on their desktop? Anyone? Where's updates like better window…

> The real problem (imo) is the lack of meaningful updates to the OS.

> EVERYTHING is an aesthetic change, or some new Siri or iPhone integration. Does anyone actually start an email on their phone and finish it on their desktop? Anyone?

I often use icloud tabs. I'm not sure about e-mails, I don't use them, but I could see myself using it feature, as well, if it works.

> Where's updates like better window management? How is it 2016 and I still don't have window tiling on a 4k (5k?) iMac?

OS X 10.12 has some tiling.

> Apple is busy repainting their bedroom varying shades of grey while Windows puts out integrated linux and bash, improved window snapping, openssh integration, etc.

Well, it's not like OS X misses bash or openssh. It's Windows who's trying to catch up.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#318

Post by fabrika »

CPLX wrote: post #18

I'm not sure how to tell this guy, but I'm over 40 years old and I have been using Apple computers literally since elementary school. At a certain point the reference to intuitive design can be to ones own past, if that past has become sufficiently ingrained and intuitive to users. I thought the lament about the photo app dropping the icon that looks like a camera was particularly odd. He seems uninterested in even a…

No reason to use an old camera metaphor. Apple uses it for iOS Camera app though.

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#319

Post by ParadoxOryx »

zer0defex wrote: post #177
jakobegger wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dock absolutely lost usability; all the icons look the same now. I practically stopped using the dock because I never find the apps I'm looking for quickly; I've switched to using Spotlight for opening apps instead. The old "Pages" icon was instantly recognisable. The new one looks, at first glance, exactly the same as text edit and notes. I don't think that the UI actually needs to get out of the way. We humans…

Exactly why I make mine transparent: http://imgur.com/a/AXNy9 Contrary to popular belief these days, contrast is not the enemy.

How'd you make it transparent?

Re: The Apple Goes Mushy Part I: OS X's Interface Decline

#320

Post by audleman »

jpalomaki wrote: post #237

The camera icon is not just a picture of the physical world object. It is pretty universal symbol for taking pictures. When the same symbol is used in so many places, even people who have never used the physical object resembling the icon, will recognize its meaning. In my view the reason behind many of these user interface changes is not really improved usability. The simple reason is that no matter how good interfa…

> Maybe the "old Apple" was happy giving out xx% of their sales for a bit of ideological reasons, but the one needs to find growth where it can?

When Apple first put forth their ideology it -was- new and shiny. It worked in their favor. I agree with you that now it's "boring" and "old."

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