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Master Plan, Part Deux

tesla.com

311–320 of 705 posts

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#311

Obscured under " Develop a self-driving capability that is 10X safer than manual via massive fleet learning " is the cold hard truth that that learning will be paid for in lives - mostly of Tesla drivers possibly of others. The rates of accidents in manual vs current version of autopilot may work out to be favorable - (and that is still under debate) - but there certainly will be people who will die (and have died) d…

So you will let perfect get in the way of better?

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#312
post #13

Uber is betting on car manufacturers to have autonomous driving in place, while it builds up a worldwide user base of logistics (moving people and goods from X to Y). It doesn't care if vehicles are driven by a horse or by electricity. Tesla is building the vehicles and energy source for the vehicles, and building the autonomy in to them, but it's betting on a user-base acquisition via hardware (vehicle) ownership an…

Good points except that we are a century, if not centuries from carbon fuel reaching a point where people start to worry. And companies like Toyota are investing in alternatives fuels like Hydrogen, so it not as straight forward as you state for Tesla.

Most Hydrogen is generated from natural gas today and for the foreseeable future... It's no more an alternative source than Electricity, probably less, because we don't have Nuclear Hydrogen plants.

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are 30,000 motor vehicle deaths in America each year. In perhaps 30 years, fully autonomous vehicles could cut all of that needless carnage to nearly nothing. There is a huge assumption underlying this: That computer systems would be more intelligent than humans. I believe the opposite: Computer systems will be much dumber than humans, and increase the number of accidents if ever adopted on large scale.

It's not a question of intelligence, but of attention. Few crashes are caused by wrong inferences; most are caused by lapses in attention or impaired judgement. Computer systems do not necessarily suffer from those.

[deleted]

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#314

Elon Musk is like the cat who tried to jump from the sofa to the top of the bookcase, fell to the floor in a tangle of wildly gyrating limbs, and is now sitting there quietly licking its paw like it was intending to do that all along. Even with his brilliance he's fooling no one into thinking the SolarCity merger was actually in his plan- there are some synergies, sure, but they're easily outweighed by the added corp…

There are Nepotism conflicts between the boards of the two companies... Not a plan? If anything, it swings/stinks too far to the other side. IMHO...

http://fortune.com/2016/06/22/tesla-elon-musk-solarcity/

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#315

My points of skepticism: 1. Semis . A typical long haul semi gets well under 10MPG. In some cases not much more than half that. They are heavy and need a lot of energy to move. A Tesla Model S weighs 4650 lbs and has a range of a couple of hundred miles. A semi truck can weigh up to 80,000 lbs. That is a lot of weight to get rolling and a lot to pull up a grade. Semis spend a large part of their time driving at highw…

A future for semis which have a 4-8 km off-grid range, and operate largely as self-assembling intermodal train rigs for long-distance transport, either on existing railcars or with a streamlined wheelset mechanism, might work.

I agree that the power densities for long-haul, BEV trucking simply don't make sense, even with platooning technologies. Intermittent fast-charge stations plus catenaries, with off-grid battery capabilities, would be a possibility however.

Another option would be for always (or nearly-always) tracked operation, with what's effectively a cargo-streetcar function within cities and suburbs, and traditional rail off.

Functions such as field-to-depot transport would almost certainly still require fueled vehicles.

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#316
post #314

Elon Musk is like the cat who tried to jump from the sofa to the top of the bookcase, fell to the floor in a tangle of wildly gyrating limbs, and is now sitting there quietly licking its paw like it was intending to do that all along. Even with his brilliance he's fooling no one into thinking the SolarCity merger was actually in his plan- there are some synergies, sure, but they're easily outweighed by the added corp…

There are Nepotism conflicts between the boards of the two companies... Not a plan? If anything, it swings/stinks too far to the other side. IMHO... http://fortune.com/2016/06/22/tesla-elon-musk-solarcity/

[deleted]

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#317

> "When used correctly, [partially autonomous driving] is already significantly safer than a person driving by themselves" If you're an American, you're twice as likely to die with a steering wheel in your hands as you are to die at the hands of a murderer. Human-driven vehicle deaths cause grave second-order suffering for families and friends - and hurt the economy. A shift to technologies safer than human-driven ca…

If you're human, you're 99.999999% likely to die.

So you're telling me there's a chance...

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#318
post #281

I'm genuinely surprised at the quality of Musk's writing and the presentation of certain ideas. He clearly insisted against copyediting, and that was probably a mistake judging by the output. I suspect that he was attempting to eschew the formality of typical press releases, but this 'Master Plan' (which is itself a somewhat juvenile moniker) feels like something that warranted rigor.

I for one applaud the honest quality of what he released. I much prefer this to something polished to a glossy finish by a PR department.

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#319
post #306
post #281

I'm genuinely surprised at the quality of Musk's writing and the presentation of certain ideas. He clearly insisted against copyediting, and that was probably a mistake judging by the output. I suspect that he was attempting to eschew the formality of typical press releases, but this 'Master Plan' (which is itself a somewhat juvenile moniker) feels like something that warranted rigor.

I can't figure out what you're trying to say. You think it's bad he wrote it himself, or good? Are you saying his writing it himself was a mistake, or wasn't? And it does or doesn't sound formal enough? It needs rigor and doesn't have it, or it does have it?

He should have written it with more formality and more rigor. Tesla is a public company and there is already a perception among investors that this is a facade. Musk needs to reposition Tesla as less of a personal experiment/quest and more of a legitimate enterprise that acknowledges its fiduciary duty to its shareholders. Tone and communication are very important in this regard. This release failed to adopt a tone and style of communication commensurate with the severity of Tesla's present situation. Instead, it feels like Musk is treating Tesla as he might a startup. In short, he's being facetious. I doubt the stock will plummet as a result of this, but it was certainly a missed opportunity to reassure investors.

Re: Master Plan, Part Deux

#320
For rates of process and cost improvement with scale, look to J. Doyne Farmer's work, and particularly Wright's Law (Moore's Law is a special case, and less accurate), which looks at cost improvements with volume increase through learning functions.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/at-work/test-and-measurem...

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1263107

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna...

http://www.santafe.edu/research/working-papers/abstract/0650...

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