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A deportation at the UK border

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Re: A deportation at the UK border

#311

Post by alejohausner »

Perhaps it's a generational thing. The OP and many posters here on HN had very nice, supportive parents who told them that the world is on their side, that they would succeed in whatever they tried to do, and that people are generally good-willed.

I on the other hand am afraid of figures of authority. I fear the police. I don't think that things will necessarily go well. And I'm especially afraid at the border. I answer the officer's questions as laconically as possible, usually in monosyllables. Things usually go well.

Imagine a thought experiment, where the OP's middle class white mind was teleported into an African American's body, dropped into a poor part of town, and stopped by the police. She would have been just as traumatized.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#312

Post by raverbashing »

pbarnes_1 wrote: post #305
raverbashing wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Or make sure you only state your purpose of entry as tourism. If you go to a conference in the US (merely for attending) you're entering for business purposes . If you have only a B-2 visa, you will be turned back

Depends where you're from (VWP allows attending conferences, company meetings, etc).

Correct, what I said applies if you're not on any visa waiver program and need an actual visa

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#314

Post by keithpeter »

ck2 wrote: post #264
keithpeter wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange, I know a couple of people who have worked in Japan for periods of a few years - legally I hasten to add - and who have experienced no special difficulties. Those periods of work were pre-2000 and a decade ago more or less. Is this a new phenomenon?

Were they on a work visa with a defined ending date? Probably seen as not a threat like immigration. But I bet overstaying a visa ends very badly there.

Ah, yes a visa with definite end date would be likely.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#315

Post by ubernostrum »

Scoundreller wrote: post #303
ubernostrum wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, most of my worst experiences with border agents were in Canadian airports. YMMV.

Are you Canadian? I think they bother the Canadians more.

Nope. US citizen, but used to work for a company that had offices in Canada, and over a couple-year period also went to three tech-related conferences held in Canada, so I got a pretty significant dose of CBSA's loving embrace.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#316

Post by DanBC »

7952 wrote: post #209
jackgavigan wrote: post #7

Unfortunately, like other countries, the UK's Border Force[1] clearly has an above-average share of incompetents and bullies. If you give such people any power whatsoever, they will abuse it. Sadly, that's what happened here. The real problem is that there is no accountability in these organisations. Even if a complaint by Rachel triggered an investigation, the culture in organisations like this is to protect their o…

I wonddr if the whole "visa free travel" thing is the real problem. Better to make it easy for everyone to apply online before they actually board a flight. Ask sufficiently nuanced questions so that people know exactly what kind of visa they actually need.

Here's the UK version.

https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa

1) What's your nationality as shown on your passport?

2) What are you coming to the UK to do?

    Tourism, including visiting friends or family
    Work, academic visit or business
    Study
    Transit (on your way to somewhere else)
    Join partner or family for a long stay
    Get married or enter into a civil partnership
    Visit your child at school
    Get private medical treatment
    For official diplomatic or government business (including transit through the UK)
Here it's pretty clear that she's coming for "work, academic visit, or business".

3) How long are you planning to work in the UK for?

Answering USA, Work, less than 6 months takes you to this page: https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/usa/work/six_months_or_le...

That was ast updated on 9th June, so let's look at archive.org - they have 2 snapshots, one of which is from May 2015. https://web.archive.org/web/20150509170713/https://www.gov.u...

At the top, in bigger font and bolded font are the words "You may need to apply for a visa".

It links to the standard visitor visa: https://web.archive.org/web/20150518091959/https://www.gov.u...

That page says:

    If you visit the UK on business
    You can apply for a Standard Visitor visa if you want to visit the UK for business-related activities, eg:

    you’re coming to the UK for a conference, meeting or training
and the permitted paid engagement visa: https://web.archive.org/web/20150518091959/https://www.gov.u...

No matter how it's described I can't imagine why people feel it's okay to travel to a different country to take part in a business meeting (even if that's unpaid) without either getting a visa or getting good quality legal advice.

My anger here is reserved for the conference organisers who didn't say "We don't know, let us ask a lawyer".

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#317

Post by coroxout »

blibble wrote: post #75

gov.uk might look pretty, but often the language used on it is imprecise and often inaccurate. directgov (the previous site) was terrible to use and look at, but the information on it was unparalleled in its accuracy and comprehensiveness, which is what I really want from the government. sadly gov.uk have stated that they are more interested in making the information easy to read, rather than accurate.

It's frustrating. The site is now full of bullet lists about things like when you need to fill in which forms and what documentation you need to provide, and half the time it's not made clear whether you need to meet ALL of bullet points or just one of them.

Also the team redoing the website, GDS, seem to be closely affiliated with the firm Govknow, which keeps spamming every email address at my non-profit including non-personal/automated addresses and refusing to unsubscribe anyone, in contravention of the rules about email marketing on the government's own website.

(I'm not sure if there's an official link but certainly most or all of the speakers at most of the conferences I get spammed about are from the GDS.)

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#318

Post by aaron695 »

2skep wrote: post #111

Enough has been said about bad treatment by border guards about every country on earth so don't need to repeat it but I had the following exchange with a Canadian visa officer. Visa Officer:Your Name? How can I help you Me: Dr XYZ. I would like to apply for a visitor visa to Canada Visa Officer: Why would you like to go to Canada Me: I have been invited to speak at a conference Visa Officer: Hmm I see. Me: Is there a…

I'm surprised when people are working (ie presenting at a conference) they think a non-working visa is OK.

We all play the game, but to not know the game is surprising. Hack the system, sure. But know you are hacking at least.

(I'm assuming OPs presentation was work related)

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#319

Post by signal11 »

rdtsc wrote: post #128
2skep wrote: post #111

Enough has been said about bad treatment by border guards about every country on earth so don't need to repeat it but I had the following exchange with a Canadian visa officer. Visa Officer:Your Name? How can I help you Me: Dr XYZ. I would like to apply for a visitor visa to Canada Visa Officer: Why would you like to go to Canada Me: I have been invited to speak at a conference Visa Officer: Hmm I see. Me: Is there a…

As a rule answers have to be as general as possible. The more specific information you give them voluntarily, the more they can find something to latch on and make your life miserable. Leave it up to them to ask more details. I wasn't a speaker at my last conference, but I could have been. But my conversation at the border was something like: "Why are you visiting Canada?" / "To go to a conference" / "Where is the co…

> As a rule answers have to be as general as possible. The more specific information you give them voluntarily, the more they can find something to latch on and make your life miserable.

This is very good advice, anyone prepping for depositions would have heard it already but it works very well for border personnel too.

Re: A deportation at the UK border

#320

Post by jacobush »

gsnedders wrote: post #255
true_religion wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiously, I think the list of countries that deny you legal counsel are lot shorter than the list of countries that do not. It's usually safe to assume that you can have legal representation, unless you are being accused of something that is a diplomatic, political, or military dispute.

Even in immigration cases where you are yet to be admitted to the country? I thought that was a very mixed bag.

Sweden just added it last year. It's also a special fast track immigrations court.
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