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Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

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Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#311

Law evolves and the law of copyright in particular is ripe for "disruption" - and I say this not as one who opposes the idea of copyright but, on the contrary, as one who strongly supports it. It is right that the author of a creative work get protection for having conceived that work and reduced it to tangible form. Developers do this all the time with their code. So too do many, many others. Many today disagree wit…

> It is right that the author of a creative work get protection for having conceived that work and reduced it to tangible form. This is incorrect (and I didn't grow up in the digital age, unless you call 4 function calculators the "digital age"). There is no such right. It is not a human right, nor is it something that you are intrinsically entitled to have. Copyright is something that is endowed upon you by the gove…

> There is no such right. It is not a human right, nor is it something that you are intrinsically entitled to have.

I disagree with that. To the extent that any rights are "natural" or "human" (as opposed to all rights being creations of the government), I think copyright is entitled to that status more so than say rights in land. My back yard is something that was here before I was born and will be here after I die. I had nothing to do with its creation, and I just bought it from somebody who bought it from somebody who stole it from the Indians. How on earth do I have a greater, more fundamental, right to that than to something I created out of non-existence?

If you build a business, you build it on the back of government-educated workers commuting on government-built roads, etc. "You didn't build that" and whatnot. But we consider you to have a moral entitlement to own and control your business, without assuming society has any special right to it other than universal obligations like paying taxes. But creative works--while they are influenced by society to a degree--are to a much greater extent singular products of creation. But you want to say you don't have a moral entitlement to it?

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fewer Oracles. Fewer Microsofts. Fewer Steve Jobs. Was it so bad back when you could just buy software for money? Before business models built on eyeballs and data mining instead of copyright?

Like when windows extended Java then started adding incompatibile methods to the windows Java extension that would be on all windows computers? Or maybe when office used a hidden format to store files so no one could share files without buying a license? They were not great times at all...

why were those not great times? Every open source project can be forked. Want to make MyC++Haxor3000 just fork LLVM and start adding the features you want. Same with python, JavaScript, and many other languages.

My understanding with Java is MS had signed a contract with Sun so there were other obligations. From a purely engineering POV though it makes total sense to extend. When I embed a language in my app (lua, JavaScript, whatever) the first thing I do is expose all my functionality.

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#313
post #172

Law evolves and the law of copyright in particular is ripe for "disruption" - and I say this not as one who opposes the idea of copyright but, on the contrary, as one who strongly supports it. It is right that the author of a creative work get protection for having conceived that work and reduced it to tangible form. Developers do this all the time with their code. So too do many, many others. Many today disagree wit…

> The Bono law may have slipped through Congress with nary a dissent in its day but this will not happen again, whatever the lobbying power of Disney and others. Copyright maximalists realizing this have moved to circumvent democracy globally by enshrining their most draconian laws into "free trade" treaties. These treaties have the proven ability to overturn the will of national democratic bodies and are almost impo…

> Copyright maximalists realizing this have moved to circumvent democracy globally by enshrining their most draconian laws into "free trade" treaties.

It's globalists and internationalists that circumvented democracy. The copyright maximalists are just trying to take advantage of the opening.

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#314
post #12

These are the statutory fair use factors the jury was required to consider (17 U.S.C. 107): (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential…

It wasn't even really a case (like say, Samba) where copying was necessary to interoperate with a closed, proprietary system. Davlik isn't drop-in compatible with the JVM anyway.

I have seen this argument a lot but it doesn't make sense to me. Who says it has to be a drop-in replacement at the binary level to have interoperability value? The source-level interoperability is obviously valuable to developers, why ignore it?

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#315
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources at the time told me IBM were planning on buying Sun (for the hardware/Telco business) and avoiding anti-trust problems by spinning software off to Red Hat (Java, ZFS, Solaris, etc). They got cold feet over the spectre of bribery investigations against Sun. I weep for the parallel universe in which Red Hat had been in a position to open all of Sun's technologies properly.

RedHat? I don't. Had that happened, Java, ZFS, MySQL, VirtualBox, etc would now likely all be required components of systemd. (Yes, I'm being a little facetious, but I really believe RedHat has some sinister ulterier motives. They've been absolutely horrible with systemd, Gnome, GTK3, etc.) What happened to Sun was an outright catastrophe, but we've mostly recovered with OpenZFS, MariaDB, Jenkins, LibreOffice, etc. T…

To be fair, I use VB every day and it is getting frequent updates and hasn't crashed in 2 years, it used to crash quite often when Sun developed it. Maybe it could be something better, or amazing and different, but it's still free and very stable, so I'm quite happy.

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#316

Law evolves and the law of copyright in particular is ripe for "disruption" - and I say this not as one who opposes the idea of copyright but, on the contrary, as one who strongly supports it. It is right that the author of a creative work get protection for having conceived that work and reduced it to tangible form. Developers do this all the time with their code. So too do many, many others. Many today disagree wit…

"The Bono law may have slipped through Congress with nary a dissent in its day but this will not happen again, whatever the lobbying power of Disney and others."

Why? What's changed?

"Those who are creatively working to change the world - developers - loath having artificial barriers that block those benefits"

No, developers won't make a single change to the laws as long as those laws protect the rich and powerful from having to work.

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#317

Law evolves and the law of copyright in particular is ripe for "disruption" - and I say this not as one who opposes the idea of copyright but, on the contrary, as one who strongly supports it. It is right that the author of a creative work get protection for having conceived that work and reduced it to tangible form. Developers do this all the time with their code. So too do many, many others. Many today disagree wit…

People complain about the special interests, but some fail to realize that the major backers of Extreme Copyright (TM) are a special interest that we created. We, the US public, out of the goodness of our hearts and wanting to foster art, gave up our right to "repeat what we heard" (copying, when what you hear is digital) in return for incentives to create art. And then bam ; decades later the incentives are the de f…

> I guess the risk of fewer Taylor Swifts.

Are you straight or ironic? Let's not forget that, in the current system, labels get served first while those artists remain in debt. It works with the system of advances and invoicing, mostly for tours and TV, but in the present situation I've found the example with album sales: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100712/23482610186.shtml

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People complain about the special interests, but some fail to realize that the major backers of Extreme Copyright (TM) are a special interest that we created. We, the US public, out of the goodness of our hearts and wanting to foster art, gave up our right to "repeat what we heard" (copying, when what you hear is digital) in return for incentives to create art. And then bam ; decades later the incentives are the de f…

"We, the US public, out of the goodness of our hearts and wanting to foster art" I was not part of that, and neither was I part of some minority complaining while the majority did this. I don't think this ever happened. Just because there's a pretense of democracy doesn't mean the general public is actually to blame for everything.

It's US specific and even then it's not true. Whenever I hear people going on about the constitution and how it's such an amazing document a little voice goes "pssst! Slavery!"

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the hold Office format hidden? It was delightfully obtuse and even obfuscated IMO, no doubt about that, but not impenetrable, and you can find the docs describing the file format on Microsoft's site now . Could you not get them 10-15 years ago?

Nope. The formats were completely undocumented. Nothing outside of Microsoft could properly import the formats. Sure things tried , but they inevitably always failed in rather dramatic ways. Joel on Software had article about the file formats several years ago. Apparently big chunks of the files are basically just memdumps. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/02/19.html

I know a guy who worked at Microsoft and left to create a .doc reader for some other software. He said the .doc format wasn't even documented inside Microsoft and pretty much no-one could tell you how to parse it, apart from trial-and-error.
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