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The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought about this a lot before actually. In my opinion, the last people with jobs will be mathematicians. If you think about everything that would be hardest to automate, I think deep mathematical theory would be the most difficult (automated theorem provers have their limits).

And chess players. Computers will never beat the best chess players.

Jonny is being sarcastic--computers have already beaten the best chess players.

But I would point out that even though that is true, people still make money today selling chess sets and chess software and chess books and chess tournament tickets to other people.

edit: clarity

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#312
post #37

Prototypical case of the 80/20 rule. He has implemented the happy case. But that system is nothing people realistically would want to drive their cars. What he did is impressive. But the results are not that outlandish for a talented person. 1) Hook up a computer to the CAN-Bus network of the car [1] and attach a bunch of sensor peripherals. 2) Drive around for some time and record everything to disk. 3) Implement so…

A project like this is extremely impressive. The guy deserves a lot of credit (and maybe some investment?). That's hacking in the truest sense.

The parent's checklist misses a bunch of things. For instance "1) Hookup a computer to the CAN-Bus network of the car". That alone is not trivial. It is trivial if you want to read the car's odometer, but good luck doing more than that. For instance, people are still trying to make sense of the reported battery cell voltages in the Nissan Leaf. All interesting features are not documented and require serious reverse-engineering. "Hooking up to the CAN-Bus" can easily become a task for a whole month, full-time. Not to mention that the most useful features for the self-driving part are probably not accessible by the CAN-Bus - people are still trying to unlock the doors of the aforementioned Nissan Leaf. Steering, acceleration and braking are unlikely to be on the CAN-Bus "2) Attach a bunch of peripherals" is also hand wavy, and same goes for the rest of the post.

It would be like dismissing SpaceX accomplishments by saying: "1) Build rocket frame. 2) build engine 3) Program flight software 4) Fill up the tanks with fuel 5) Push a big red button". The devil is in the details.

With that out of the way: if the events happened as described, this guy should be convicted of reckless "driving". Taking a prototype that had only started working a few hours prior to an actual test run in a freeway with other cars is insane. What about some simpler, more useful and less dangerous goal? Such as a lane-departure warning add-on for cars which lack that capability?

The article title is the worst part though. It's not "clever dude created a self-driving car prototype by himself". It is "Dude is taking on Tesla by himself". Which is bullshit.

EDIT: Fix typo.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) It's probably not a disk. I'd bet it's an SSD, or something. I doubt he'd use an HDD considering how relatively cheap it is now... and considering how loaded he probably is.

SSD = solid state DISK

I thought it was drive, not disk.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Hotz did state that, “The truth is that work as we know it in its modern form has not been around that long, and I kind of want to use AI to abolish it. I want to take everyone’s jobs. Most people would be happy with that, especially the ones who don’t like their jobs. Let’s free them of mental tedium and push that to machines. In the next 10 years, you’ll see a big segment of the human labor force fall away. I…

Yeah and the world will split in rich and poor people with poor starving.

What interests me about your argument is the assumption that the "poor starving" will just sit by and passively accept that.

The reason we don't have an insurrection on our hands now about wealth disparity is that while the wealth of the super wealthy has accelerated hugely so has the general living standard of the poor, if (when) the jobs go away that will no longer be the case and then you are talking about a brutal escalation into a full insurrection and while the technology and wealth will be on one side, the last 15 years in the middle east has shown what committed people with pickups and AK's can do against an on-paper massively superior opponent.

I just hope the super wealthy are smart enough to see this coming and avoid it, it would be spectacularly brutal.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#315

Surprised that no one else commented on this: It is completely mad and irresponsible to test a self-driving car on a public highway especially since the one who has built it admits that he has no idea what it is doing. Hotz is putting other people's lives in grave danger and everyone is applauding him for that.

Hardly. Way worse stuff happens on the road by dumber people. I bet if he was pulled over, cops would probably be impressed then order it towed to his house. No charges.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#316

> The last people with jobs will be AI programmers Geohotz makes a decent point. The way the industrial revolution reduced manual labour, and made thinkers and tinkerers much more valuable, the advent of AI (true AI, mind you, not the tiny stuff that we currently assume) might actually make us obsolete. It is a peaceful and yet terrifying thought.

Can you point to one such job where someone lost his/her job to "AI"?

1-800-555-1212 operators replaced by Tellme.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Hotz did state that, “The truth is that work as we know it in its modern form has not been around that long, and I kind of want to use AI to abolish it. I want to take everyone’s jobs. Most people would be happy with that, especially the ones who don’t like their jobs. Let’s free them of mental tedium and push that to machines. In the next 10 years, you’ll see a big segment of the human labor force fall away. I…

Bullshit. It's a nice dream, but the idea of AI and robots doing dishes, picking strawberries, washing cars, cooking meals will never happen. The best AI cannot beat a population of Mexicans who are basically the glue that holds out modern society together. If you wanted to see how the U.S. Will completely come to a screeching halt, it would be if the rapture took place and only claimed all Mexicans. Our entire way o…

Once our entire agricultural system (here in the UK) was dependent on manual farm labourers, now we grow 60% of the calories we consume with 1.6% of the workforce.

> It's a nice dream, but the idea of AI and robots doing dishes, picking strawberries, washing cars, cooking meals will never happen.

If something can be automated at a lower cost than paying wages it eventually will be, automation is coming (arguably has been here since the industrial revolution) and it's not stopped yet.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#318

> The last people with jobs will be AI programmers Geohotz makes a decent point. The way the industrial revolution reduced manual labour, and made thinkers and tinkerers much more valuable, the advent of AI (true AI, mind you, not the tiny stuff that we currently assume) might actually make us obsolete. It is a peaceful and yet terrifying thought.

Can you point to one such job where someone lost his/her job to "AI"?

Sports writers, finance writers: http://singularityhub.com/2011/09/19/ai-journalist-writes-sp...

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if we don't have laws currently, we sure as hell need them. i can't imagine letting everybody try their own self-driving software.

From the article: “I live by morals, I don’t live by laws,” Hotz declared in the story. “Laws are something made by assholes.”

So he'll feel morally okay if he kills or cripples someone by being reckless?

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. It's a nice dream, but the idea of AI and robots doing dishes, picking strawberries, washing cars, cooking meals will never happen. The best AI cannot beat a population of Mexicans who are basically the glue that holds out modern society together. If you wanted to see how the U.S. Will completely come to a screeching halt, it would be if the rapture took place and only claimed all Mexicans. Our entire way o…

Once our entire agricultural system (here in the UK) was dependent on manual farm labourers, now we grow 60% of the calories we consume with 1.6% of the workforce. > It's a nice dream, but the idea of AI and robots doing dishes, picking strawberries, washing cars, cooking meals will never happen. If something can be automated at a lower cost than paying wages it eventually will be, automation is coming (arguably has…

http://www.foodchainsfilm.com/

Watch this - and tell me whats cheaper, robots or mexican slaves.

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