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Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

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Re: Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

#311

Post by tim333 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #174
exelius wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the EU is too protective of its economy to allow the kind of innovation Silicon Valley is famous for. The EU has a default assumption of "you have to prove that this will not be harmful before you can do it" where the US has a default assumption of "someone else has to prove that this will be harmful before we will stop you". The important part is that this burden of proof in the US is not placed on a company at…

> They're only able to address the EU market because they have a large, profitable base in the US. Uber is only able to address any market because they have a ton of outside venture funding. Don't get me wrong - I agree that the EU is overly protective and that this harms their startup economy, but Uber is not a good example of that point.

Indeed. There were a load of London based taxi apps eg http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-3057608/Six...

The thing Uber has which I think it would only get in Silicon Valley is about $8bn of funding. The biggest UK company I think is Hailo which raised about $100m. It'll be interesting to see how they do in China where the competitors have raised similar vc - Kuaidi raised $950 and I think Uber are spending a billion or so in China.

Re: Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

#312

Post by OJFord »

raverbashing wrote: post #124
OJFord wrote: post #107

I certainly agree that "Europe has no Silicon Valley", but I'm not so sure about "or New York". What part of "the full stack entrepreneurial ecosystem and access to funding" does London lack that New York has? (Genuine question - I don't know NY well)

Or you know: Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin.

Sure, sorry - I wasn't trying to add London to a very exclusive list, I'm just not as familiar with others.

Re: Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

#313

Post by pluma »

mamon wrote: post #238
pluma wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a thought: these people went through hell in order to get out of the misery they lived in. That's not exactly what I have in mind when I think of underachievers with no work ethos.

Here's the thought: if they really went through hell they would appreciate stay in any decent EU country. But most of them really wasn't in danger when they decided to travel to Europe. In fact, such a travel, as organized by people smuggling gangs costs about $10k so it's obvious that they were pretty wealthy before they decided to come here. Also, most of them openly admit that they are here for economic reasons, n…

I'm deeply concerned about your view of humans. This kind of misanthropy has been used to justify the death of millions throughout all the past century.

You're not even consistent. First you portray refugees as lazy welfare hogs, now you say they are wealthy because they can afford the smuggling gangs. If they are so wealthy, what makes you think they only want to come to Europe to collect unemployment benefits?

Someone applying for asylum in Germany can be stuck in limbo for years before being rejected and deported. This happens fairly frequently. Throughout that waiting period they're not allowed to work and are stuck in refugee camps that are getting less and less hospitable as the number of refugees grows (simply because the communal governments asked to take care of them don't have any money and often only learn how many they have to accommodate when the buses arrive). Refugees don't have an easy time.

If you think all of the "Muslim world" is one big cozy community you haven't been paying attention. The "Muslim world" is about as united as Ireland during the Troubles. The civil war in Syria is fought between a totalitarian dictator and Islamic extremists. Saudi Arabia is an Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship. This is the last place you want to go if you don't agree with either side in the conflict. Yet Saudi Arabia has accepted thousands of Syrians into the country (although they don't treat them as refugees, which is what led to the claim that they don't take any Syrian refugees).

And Turkey? Tons of refugees are going to Turkey. And many of them have hopes of being able to return to their home country when the war is over. To quote Wikipedia: "As of April 2015, there are 2,138,999 estimated Syrian refugees in Turkey." -- that's an order of magnitude more than any EU country (and Turkey isn't that big of a country nor that wealthy).

Heck, many places outside of Europe have granted actual residency permits to Syrians. That means they're not even treating them as refugees but as perfectly ordinary legal immigrants -- a far cry from the temporary shelter and perpetual "Duldung" (i.e. promise not to get deported yet) they would get in Germany.

You're pretending the EU countries are the only places accepting Syrian refugees. That simply isn't true. The reasons we hear more about refugees coming to the EU than those being accepted in other places is simple:

1. Most of Europe shares a common border (Schengen), so "our borders" span more than just our own country.

2. There are a ton of countries in Europe, so each country accepting a lot of refugees adds up to a very big number.

3. We live in Europe (or in the US: you're closely related to Europe) so we pay more attention to what's going on here.

Stop listening to AfD/NPD/BNP bar-room clichés and pay attention to what's actually happening outside the Western World.

Some reading material:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/for-many-syrian-refugees-fleein...

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/lebanon-struggles-to-shelt...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_W...

Re: Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

#314

Post by exelius »

walshemj wrote: post #228
exelius wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a feature, not a bug. I actually don't disagree with you; but my original point is that the US actively prioritizes giving companies space to operate without government intervention over protecting the rights of its citizens. It generally makes the US a worse place to live, but a better place to start a business. > Also, I don't know where you got the idea that in the EU you need to prove what you're doing…

I think those working in online poker etc would disagree - the local monopoly was protected very strongly. And there are the non tariff barriers look how hard it is to import eu cars

Poker just has an image problem - you don't see anyone getting in trouble over the "fantasy football" sites that are thinly-veiled online sports books. Hell, they even advertise on national TV during football games, so it's not like they're flying under the radar at this point.

Re: Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

#315

Post by Silhouette »

spacehome wrote: post #302
Silhouette wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like Uber could never have come out of Europe. A large company that is breaking the law while competing with regulated taxis and remaining unregulated themselves? That would never fly in the EU, This is a feature, not a bug. We do tend to regulate some areas more in Europe than the US, but from various on-line discussions about Uber in recent months, I have come to the conclusion that the original problem t…

> could affect safety Be careful about what you're saying here. Conformance to regulations is not at all the same as safety. My (anecdotal) experience is that Uber drivers are consistently better in anything that could be considered related to safetey - namely having functional seatbelts and paying attention to the road.

Be careful about what you're saying here.

I meant what I wrote.

Regulated taxis and private hire vehicles here in the UK are typically required to be serviced and tested much more often than regular cars, for example. Something like not having a functional seatbelt would mean an immediate failure at a test.

All such vehicles and their drivers are also required to display identification, so anyone who is not happy with the state of a vehicle can also report it themselves to the local licensing authority or even the police.

Re: Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

#316

Post by zump »

crdb wrote: post #295
seibelj wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cool that you like Texas and all but the stats speak for themselves. It's SV way ahead of Boston which is a little ahead of NYC. And Boston has tons of enterprise VC which is unique. I have no problem hiring talent in Boston, and the numbers I snag engineers for are high, but nothing like the "500k salary and 2 million in stock" articles I hear about happening in SV. Also, the whole argument that it's harder to…

> nothing like the "500k salary and 2 million in stock" articles I hear about happening in SV Amusingly, the only American software engineer I know who is certifiably taking more than 500k USD a year in base (i.e. cash, pre-bonus) salary lives and works in Boston.

Pray tell, what industry?

Re: Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

#317

Post by PythonicAlpha »

pvaldes wrote: post #283
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #171

In my opinion, the EU has failed (still) to be an open big market, where companies can grow without restrictions. One current big example are the new VAT rules in the EU for non-physical products. They just do the opposite, what a free market should be. There are already companies that say on their website, that they will sell to their own countries people and happily even to people outside of the EU, but not to peop…

VAT has become a big problem for commerce, yes.

It's not about VAT, but about the new VAT rules in the EU particularly for non-physical goods. The problem is not the VAT amount, but that small companies potentially have to deal with all the finance offices (and special rulings) of all EU countries. That is ridiculous!

Re: Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

#318

Post by userulluipeste »

aianus wrote: post #237
Asbostos wrote: post #16

He mentions the multiple languages. I don't understand why Europeans stick to their local languages when they all know English anyway. Are they trying to keep foreigners out? Surely they realize there's a huge social cost of having your own minority language. This problem exists in China too but most people recognize the need to learn the standard Mandarin so they're largely bilingual. Dialect at home and Mandarin ta…

I'm with you. I speak Romanian but it's totally worthless compared to English. It's a shame that European countries (especially poor ones) don't switch to English immersion schooling to give their students a chance in life.

I also speak Romanian and I am NOT with you. You're free to emigrate if you don't appreciate your country or cultural heritage, this way you'll do yourself and to the rest of us a great service!

Călătorie sprâncenată, frățâne!

Re: Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

#319

Post by spacehome »

Silhouette wrote: post #315
spacehome wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could affect safety Be careful about what you're saying here. Conformance to regulations is not at all the same as safety. My (anecdotal) experience is that Uber drivers are consistently better in anything that could be considered related to safetey - namely having functional seatbelts and paying attention to the road.

Be careful about what you're saying here. I meant what I wrote. Regulated taxis and private hire vehicles here in the UK are typically required to be serviced and tested much more often than regular cars, for example. Something like not having a functional seatbelt would mean an immediate failure at a test. All such vehicles and their drivers are also required to display identification, so anyone who is not happy wit…

Our experiences are in different countries. In the U.S. it's not even uniformly the law that you have to wear a seatbelt in the back seat.

Re: Why Is Europe Failing to Create More $1B Startups?

#320

Post by ionised »

exelius wrote: post #167
humanrebar wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we don't care if the tech sector concentrates in California or Texas or wherever as long as it is in the US Hmmm... I'm not sure that's true. For some definition of "we", it would be tautologically true, I guess. Many states complain about paying more in taxes than they get back in spending. California, Texas, and New York all pay more in taxes than they get back in spending, though Delaware takes the biggest hit,…

IMO the EU is too protective of its economy to allow the kind of innovation Silicon Valley is famous for. The EU has a default assumption of "you have to prove that this will not be harmful before you can do it" where the US has a default assumption of "someone else has to prove that this will be harmful before we will stop you". The important part is that this burden of proof in the US is not placed on a company at…

> The EU has a default assumption of "you have to prove that this will not be harmful before you can do it"

This is bad for big business, good for citizens. As a citizen I hope it stays this way. Regulation is our friend and it's the reason so many in the EU are against TTIP.

A race to the bottom of common regulation on either side of the Atlantic is something that will only be harmful to the average EU populace.

Suddenly we'd have growth hormone in our meat and shit like this;

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/22/eu-droppe...

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