Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection • Hacker News Board

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#301

Post by crucini » Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 12:38 AM UTC

pistle wrote: post #140

celticninja wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to be fair, with the funds in $ you probably have a better chance of getting some of that back than if it was BTC.

Yeah, call in the regulators to get some back. Thank a US fiat tax payer. You're welcome. It's the biggest load of hypocrisy that people who enthusiastically wanted to play in the libertarian paradise of an unregulated currency think they should be able to turn around and request the help of the regular, regulated, tax-supported economy to make them partial or whole. First, we'll crap a bunch of processing resources…

Perhaps there is some hypocrisy, but I think your comment borders on a common fallacy.

The fallacy says that an idealist is hypocritical for using real-world resources which wouldn't exist in his ideal world.

It says a communist is hypocritical for wearing shoes made by private enterprise, and a libertarian is hypocritical for buying liquor at the state liquor store, in a state which has that system.

It ignores the issue of bootstrapping. Those who dream of the future must necessarily exist in the present and use the resources of the present.

If (and I'm not persuaded of this) some BitCoiners want a future without regulators, they presumably want some other mechanism to replace regulators, just as the communist wants a people's shoe factory to replace the capitalist shoe factory.

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#302

Post by celticninja » Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 9:13 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #249

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you do realize that those arguments are for _bitcoin_ and not for _exchanges_? The decentralization of _bitcoin_ is supposedly an advantage precisely because _exchanges_ (like MtGox) and other central organizations like banks are prone to failure due to fraud and mismanagement. So, they are essentially saying "We need bitcoin because we don't want to trust institutions like MtGox because they might fail" and you…

I'm not saying that anybody who had money in Bitcoin is a hypocrite. But anybody who had money in MtGox, lost it, and now wants help getting it back is hypocritical if they were also singing the praises of Bitcoin in those ways. And that presuming that people with money in MtGox were Bitcoin proponents is not a giant stretch.

I would have to disagree.

>And that presuming that people with money in MtGox were Bitcoin proponents is not a giant stretch.

It is a giant stretch given that most people who knew a lot about bitcoin and the bitcoin economy, the proponents of bitcoin as it were, have had concerns over mtgox for quite some time. Actually I imagine many people who lost btc and/or fiat at mtgox were relative newcomers who were unaware of the ongoing problems and just saw mtgox as the largest exchange and most public facing one at that. So you are making a huge assumption on which you base your choice to condemn people for their choice.

There have been plenty of these sorts of comments all over the internet since mtgox collapsed,essentially saying:

"champion that it is not regulated, go running to the regulators when a problem arises"

the thing is that never has any one of these comments been followed up with an example or instance where the same person has espoused both beliefs/statements. This is generally because they dont exist and/or the commenter doesnt want to do any work to prove their point they just want to denigrate people they think they are smarter than. An exercise in self-pomposity essentially.

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#303

Post by brasmasus » Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:03 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #212

aragot wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like customers should have judged by themselves it wasnt a safe van to put your valuable antiques in.

In addition to this being the usual hindsight horseshit, it also displays startling ignorance of how markets work. If every time I want to buy a pack of gum I have to investigate every entity in the production and distribution chain, then I will never buy gum because the transaction cost is well above the value. This is why businesses, who have substantial lobbying power, are generally ok with government regulation a…

Any 10-minute Google search over the past year would reveal that Gox had been having absurd problems for awhile and that there were several more reputable exchanges available to would-be day traders. Over the past year, a visit to any bitcoin forum wouldn't be complete without a highly visible 'Gox screwed up and their support sucks. Stay away!' thread. Unsurprisingly, the Gox market share had shrunk to a fraction of its former might months ago. Sad as it may be for those affected, this is how a market learns to value one competitor over another. The free-market result of the Gox situation is that exchanges and other custodial companies in the space are now differentiating themselves with enhaced security, transparency and 'proof of reserves' features. No cumbersome regulatory framework required.

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#304

Post by theorique » Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 11:44 PM UTC

ericb wrote: post #245

theorique wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a good point. It definitely takes a lot of mental discipline to rebalance on a schedule with liquid paper wealth.

And if we're being legal, a willingness to take it on the chin with short term capital gains rates on everything you rebalance.

Interesting question (I don't know the answer). Does appreciation through currency exchange count as a short term capital gain?

Re: Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection

#305

Post by jgalt212 » Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 10:12 PM UTC

gaadd33 wrote: post #127

jgalt212 wrote: post #111

Is this the largest heist in history?

I don't think the numbers even reach the low billions, so no Madoff still takes that award.

I guess it depends how you define heist. I think I would put Ponzi scheme in a different category, but I do see your point in that a theft is a theft.