Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Letter From A Psychopath

twitlonger.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 347 posts

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#301

Post by hedning »

throwaway83294 wrote: post #128
hootener wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's brilliant about this letter is how easily I stepped into it. C admitted to possessing the abilities to be a master manipulator and exploiter of weakness; and I still let C manipulate me into thinking exactly the way he/she wanted me to by the end of the letter. It was the literary equivalent of the cup-and-shell game. I saw the con happening right before my eyes and still got duped. Brilliant writing. (Note: I…

You have no idea. I was "friends" with someone for years, who at the time I didn't know was a psychopath (over time I realized they met literally every item on the psychopathy checklist). The manipulativeness, the ability to lie completely sincerely (I bet a lie detector test would show absolutely nothing), and absolute and utter lack of remorse is terrifying, in a way. The most striking thing, in retrospect, is the…

> But beyond the terror you could see, there was nothing -- just pure cold and calculating rational self-serving thought.

Apart from his feelings he didn't have feelings? I appreciate you telling your story and I realize you were taken advantage of, and he treated you unquestionably bad, but painting this person as completly unhuman is not very helpful.

It seems to me that the things you describe here is an extreme end of human nature, but in way outside human nature. The best laws of physics are the one that are valid from all perspectives, so it is with the laws of human nature. Having a completly ad-hoc theory for someone elses behaviour is not emphatic or useful.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#302

Post by girvo »

Houshalter wrote: post #261
shanusmagnus wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is most fascinating to me is the fact that posts like the parent will delve into the game theoretic motivations of psychopathy as if the psychopath were some wholly unique flavor of creature operating under behavioral algorithms never before seen, when the truth is that your neurotypical, salt of the Earth Johnny Lunchpail is doing the same thing, except on a different timescale, and with the utility functions i…

So because a person is not themselves a perfect altruist, they are no better than a person who has no empathy or morality whatsoever?

No the point is that it's far more complex than that.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#303

Post by girvo »

kbenson wrote: post #160
VladimirGolovin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's both impressive and admirable that the author was able to not only admit that he needed therapy but to press on long enough to make therapy work for himself in an effective manner. If it's true, that is. Pathological lying is a part of Hare Psychopathy Checklist. The entire article may well be totally made up.

While I can't dispute the wisdom of being leery of a manipulator, I can't help feeling sad for anyone in a situation like this that actually does change. If you expose yourself as having a penchant for manipulation, how can you ever truly break that stigma. It's similar to the brain in a vat problem.

I am an ex heroin addict who lied and cheated and took advantage of people. I've been completely clean for a year an a half, and people still treat me like I'm the same person. Which is annoying at times, and I feel like some of the people around me will never change their opinion regardless of what I do.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#304

Post by stormbrew »

chrischen wrote: post #282
throwaway83294 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to either over-demonize or underestimate the nature of actual psychopathy if you've never encountered it. By definition, a pure psychopath feels absolutely no remorse, no guilt, and has an unshakable egocentric view that does not change. They're effectively intelligent rational agents without the natural mammal-evolved desire to benefit the group -- they only seek to benefit the self. They would stab you in…

If they're rational agents, then they should understand the results of the iterated prisoner's dilemma, and understand that screwing people over doesn't pay, remorse or no remorse.

Aside from the fact that life isn't a restricted theoretical game theory puzzle and rational doesn't mean educated (thus aware of prisoner's dilemma), this would assume that the people they're screwing over are also rational actors and are capable of cooperating.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#305

Post by mercer »

southpawgirl wrote: post #256
sliverstorm wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he was too incredible of a case for anyone but the highest-ranking therapist to handle I was actually waiting for a reveal of something like, "And I discovered the reason I connected with the top therapist so well was because she was a closet psychopath!"

The detail of the highest-ranking therapist, plus others -the need for validation, the fact that the writer declares to be keen on interpersonal connections, the general air of self-involvement, plus the simple act of dishing personal stuff in public - makes me think more of narcissism than psychopathy. (IANA psychiatrist, needless to say) In fact, I suspect that most people who flaunt their psychopathy on the intern…

Could he perhaps be both?

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#306

Post by pathtopsyche »

I come from a rather unstable and violent corner of the world, and I've met plenty of psychopaths growing up. I have a hypothesis that early childhood traumas and violent environment can trigger the development of psychopathic tendencies, but I'm not entirely sure how much role does genetics play in this process.

Some of the commenters on this topic seem to ascribe superhuman rationality and brainpower to psychopaths. I don't think that's a correct way to look at it. They can be very smart, but they suffer from the same set of biases and blind spots and Dunning-Kruger type of phenomena as other people. I think the defining characteristic is the complete lack of empathy and the willingness and ability to manipulate people (practicing the skill from early childhood, hence very good at it).

I was just looking up one of the smartest and most pronounced psychopaths I've met in recent years. Apparently he got his MBA and started an offshore private equity fund, seems to be doing well for himself. The guy had monumental talent for manipulating people. I wonder how far will he go before people catch on to his true nature...

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#307

Post by leot »

hootener wrote: post #103
tomstokes wrote: post #92

Perhaps the most fascinating part of this letter is observing people's reactions to it. In the letter, the author goes so far as to admit that s/he is and always will be a psychopath without a sense of guilt or remorse toward others and a keen ability to recognize and exploit weaknesses in others for his/her own gain. Judging by the comments here, the letter has done just that. One comment below notes that "Jeez, tha…

What's brilliant about this letter is how easily I stepped into it. C admitted to possessing the abilities to be a master manipulator and exploiter of weakness; and I still let C manipulate me into thinking exactly the way he/she wanted me to by the end of the letter. It was the literary equivalent of the cup-and-shell game. I saw the con happening right before my eyes and still got duped. Brilliant writing. (Note: I…

Any letter that honestly describes overcoming hardship should trigger empathy. That doesn't mean one is being manipulated.

The trouble with much of this discussion is that, apparently, once classified as a "psychopath", all bad behavior is typical and all good behavior manipulative.

Furthermore, though, minds are assembled of, and driven by, complex and messy mechanisms: "lack of remorse" means what, exactly? Lack of feeling? Or, perhaps, the person feels it but chooses to ignore it? Are they ignoring it for self-serving reasons? What if those "self-serving" reasons are necessary because of the job one has (e.g., military)? Similarly, "lack of guilt" means what, exactly? Is it lack of learning what things one should feel guilty for? Is "feeling guilt" a learned skill, or does its ontogeny happen "all on its own"? (whatever that means; but in any case, we cannot have had the capacity to feel guilt "since conception")

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#308

Post by gohrt »

nostrademons wrote: post #196
tfb wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known a few psychopaths myself. It is interesting how they react when you make it clear you know all about their deception. I personally find it hilarious that they think they're able to dupe everyone they meet, but I also feel sad that it still works on so many. It's hard though to differentiate true psychopaths from those who simply share a few traits. When I read about psychopaths, I tend to find common trait…

Usually the defining characteristic of a psychopath is an inability to feel shame, remorse, or empathy. If you catch someone with narcissistic personality disorder in a lie or situation where they've hurt someone and call them out on it, the response is usually bluster, a frantic attempt to shore up ego. If you catch someone with borderline personality disorder or just plain deep insecurity, they'll often deflate and…

hmm.. In some sense, a psychopath is someone who is perfectly cool under (social) pressure.

When a normal person gets into a dispute, they worry about saving face and moral obligations, instinctively comfort (or maybe attack) the other person, etc, in an "I-Thou" situation. But a psychopath just sees a dispute as an "I-It" situation, like seeing a puddle on the sidewalk, something to casually (or carefully) navigate around, or (in the worst case) plow through and brush off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_and_Thou http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Buber

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#309

Post by gohrt »

scott_s wrote: post #251
sliverstorm wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this person is characterized by being completely fearless (as is typical of psychopaths) Everyone is afraid of something. Psychopaths are still people. If you believe someone is fearless, it's a safe assumption they either hide their fear (when they feel it) extremely well, or you simply haven't encountered it yet.

Psychopaths tend to fear negative consequences less than non-psychopaths. They are still people, but having less fear (not being literally fearless) than most is a defining trait.

They fear negative consequences less, or they fear social consequences less?

That is, are they less afraid of car crashes and drowning, or just less afraid of pissing people off (because they don't care about other's personal needs, and because they can easily "fix" a relationship with the advantages of deception)

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#310

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway83294 wrote: post #128
hootener wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's brilliant about this letter is how easily I stepped into it. C admitted to possessing the abilities to be a master manipulator and exploiter of weakness; and I still let C manipulate me into thinking exactly the way he/she wanted me to by the end of the letter. It was the literary equivalent of the cup-and-shell game. I saw the con happening right before my eyes and still got duped. Brilliant writing. (Note: I…

You have no idea. I was "friends" with someone for years, who at the time I didn't know was a psychopath (over time I realized they met literally every item on the psychopathy checklist). The manipulativeness, the ability to lie completely sincerely (I bet a lie detector test would show absolutely nothing), and absolute and utter lack of remorse is terrifying, in a way. The most striking thing, in retrospect, is the…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN