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Don't Fly During Ramadan

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Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#301

Post by notahacker »

mindcrime wrote: post #223
jrockway wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is that oppressive. He went through security and set off an explosives detector. The cops showed up and asked some questions. Then he left. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say the government can't hamfistedly accuse you of a crime. All it says is that they have to charge you or let you go in 24 hours, give you a trial, and punish you in a consistent way. They did that here; they asked some ques…

I don't think this is that oppressive. Yeah, well, it didn't happen to you, did it? He went through security and set off an explosives detector. The cops showed up and asked some questions. Then he left. "We gave him free room and board for 17 years, then laid him on a comfortable bed and gave him some medicine to make him fall asleep for a while". vs. "We kept him caged in a tiny, windowless cell and gave him just e…

In this case, the pertinent detail is the fact the man set of explosive detectors.

The other details, far from suggesting oppressive state apparatus, suggested an assortment of rent-a-cops and airline staff that really weren't particularly well-prepared for the guy that couldn't account for the explosives and flagged other profiling alarms without actually giving any indication of being an actual threat. If you want to oppress someone you do a lot more than keep them waiting whilst you try and figure out who's best positioned to ask less silly questions.

The most objectionable behaviour was arguably JetBlue's decision to refuse to honour the return ticket, and you'd struggle to argue that was part of the crushing state apparatus.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#302

Post by mark-r »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #68
dictum wrote: post #54

This is a manifestation of the US institutionalized xenophobia. Good manners and taste should keep me from using this submission as another soapbox against how the US views foreigners, but when you see foreigners as enemies, a citizen who looks or acts vaguely "foreign"— I can't offer a precise definition of what "looking foreign" entails, but it's a combination of being a part of a small demographic group, and being…

It's actually a manifestation of the US security state. Foreigners or foreign-looking people are just the first victims. Rest assured, before long everyone in the country will be suspect.

According to the NSA we already are.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#304

Post by pessimizer »

chimeracoder wrote: post #185
amirmc wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA does more than just airports "With little fanfare, the agency best known for airport screenings has vastly expanded its reach to sporting events, music festivals, rodeos, highway weigh stations and train terminals." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...

That thought is terrifying. I was afraid I was going to be put on the no-fly list afterwards and would have to travel back to NYC by train (a four-day trip). Even before this experience I used to avoid flying in favor of taking the train. I don't know what I'd do if the TSA became commonplace at train stations.

I haven't flown since shortly after you had to take off your shoes to get through security, taking Amtrak instead, and I've only ever even seen two people searched by TSA. You barely even see them, and if you do, they're usually sitting around looking bored.

I suspect that they only bother to do the random searches if they've gotten some specific alert or warning.

Many, many trips between Chicago and SF, Portland, and Texas, or rather, California Zephyr, Empire Builder, Texas Eagle, and Spirit of New Orleans etc. Haven't had any need to go through Bloombergville, though so ymmv.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#305

Post by swalkergibson »

chimeracoder wrote: post #52
onli wrote: post #42

What I don't understand: If you are detained for several hours, why don't people call a lawyer? Why did he speak to the police (end even the FBI!) without legal counsel?

As I mentioned in the post, they claimed I "wasn't being detained". I asked more than once to use my phone; they denied me. Maybe I could make that more clear.

It sounds like the best course of action is to just have an attorney present if a situation like this happens again. You knew you were being detained, no matter what the authorities said. As far as I know, there are no provisions anywhere that forbid you from having a lawyer present when and wherever you want.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#308

Post by tlrobinson »

magikarp wrote: post #118

Everything about this story, right down to the questions, agents involved, luggage inspections and the man's apartment being broken into and searched, fits very well with my own experiences in 2012 with entering the United States. I'm a recent Lebanese immigrant to Canada, male, in my early twenties, and to top it off I work on encryption software. I imagine the only worse thing I could be is an Iranian nuclear scien…

(For the curious, magickarp is the author of Cryptocat)

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#309

Post by rquantz »

ctdonath wrote: post #291
jrockway wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is that oppressive. He went through security and set off an explosives detector. The cops showed up and asked some questions. Then he left. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say the government can't hamfistedly accuse you of a crime. All it says is that they have to charge you or let you go in 24 hours, give you a trial, and punish you in a consistent way. They did that here; they asked some ques…

Israel does a marvelous job of it by a brief interview of every passenger. It's a matter of how each person reacts to initial eye contact; with proper interrogation training, ill intent is obvious. The TSA technique does everything but what works. Gross wholesale violations of multiple Constitutional rights doesn't work.

This sounds terrible. Police make me very nervous. I avoid them if possible, especially making eye contact. How would I show up in Israel's interview?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#310

Post by foiame »

chimeracoder wrote: post #295
quantumpotato_ wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered filing a FOIA for raids on your apartment & the painting?

I didn't. I've never actually had to file a FOIA request before - is this something that would be available through one?

I would file one on yourself with all relevant agencies. It's a painless process (I emailed mine to the FBI), albeit a slow one.
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