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New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

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Re: New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

#301
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like we are basically reliving the COVID era supply chain crunch, that it's basically inevitable that in 18-36 months more capacity will come online and prices will crash back to earth. Whether OEMs like Apple pass these savings along to consumers is tbd though.

Memory orders for the whole 2027 were already reserved. There is little indication that in 2028 situation will be any better unless something drastic happens like AI crash. And then the opposite can happen like an unknown drone with 100 kg warhead striking memory production facility.

> There is little indication that in 2028 situation will be any better unless something drastic happens like AI crash.

China.

This market situation is a perfect storm for chinese manufacturers to step up. They don't have to chase latest-and-greatest, price-performance is one of the strongest demand drivers in consumer segment. They need a viable alternative, offer it at a reasonable price - which is much easier to achieve under current heavily inflated conditions - and that would quickly entrench them as a household brand.

Remember, it's not that there's no chinese lithography tech at all, it's just not advanced enough to yield mass production silicon at commercially viable prices. It might be the case that at current market conditions this caveat does not hold and all they need to do is ship. Even if the current prices mean they do it at break-even it would still be an enormously massive win.

Again, they don't have to compete at the flagship level from the get go, they need something commercially viable. There are tons of Chinese companies in the west and probably even more western on the outside chinese white-label goods. Chinese government has enough weight to push domestic silicon on those companies to create domestic silicon industry that can make the unit economies work.

All in all, there is a very likely scenario where this current AI boom and the resulting crunch on silicon supply creates a competitive silicon industry in China. If you think something in the realm of "I would not buy chinese silicon even if it was cheaper" it does not matter. Look at smartphone market share outside of USA, Japan and West Europe: in majority of the world Apple+Samsung barely touches 50%. What this "rest of the world" lacks in individual purchasing power it more than makes up for in numbers.

Re: New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement is not really true any more. I have an old M1 Max with 32GB that runs inference models fine, especially those using MLX. Dedicated graphics cards are faster but not to the point that it matters. That’s a six year old machine. My newer machine M5 max 128GB will far outperform your typical 32GB gaming card once the model exceeds memory. To even get close to that on a dedicated graphics card you are payin…

I dunno why Apple fans do this thing where they pretend that their specific workflow is the standard for how things work, and because they can do it so well on their Macs, that means Macs are the best. To be specific, 5 models at 57 gb means you are using crap quantized models, which suck for any real agentic work. I mean, sure they give you some inference, but compared to the full parameter models like Qwen3.8 and G…

> I dunno why Apple fans

You mean someone who uses a Mac? I find the term "Apple fan" is used as a way to attack the person.

> that can run full agentic loops, you may as well just use cloud inference for the price.

You can run full agentic loops fine with quantised models. In fact that is likely what you are doing with a 32GB PC Graphics card. Or what model are you using?

You use the right model for the right job. For example granite4.2 is optimised for agentic work and only needs 5GB of memory.

Gemma4 MLX runs fine with the larger model needing 19GB.

Prior to that I had OpenClaw (in Parallels VM) create an application with local models that worked the exact same way as created by Claude. It was more an experiment in how OpenClaw works, hence the VM.

> And 57 gb is split across 3 cards quite easily,

I assume you are talking about a good graphics card. A good 32GB will run you $2K a card, so that $6K to beat out a laptop of similar price, and where the difference doesn't matter.

[edit]

Anyway my main point is Macs work fine for local models. I have a 6 year old machine that proves that.

Re: New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement is not really true any more. I have an old M1 Max with 32GB that runs inference models fine, especially those using MLX. Dedicated graphics cards are faster but not to the point that it matters. That’s a six year old machine. My newer machine M5 max 128GB will far outperform your typical 32GB gaming card once the model exceeds memory. To even get close to that on a dedicated graphics card you are payin…

The $8k machine will out preform the 1k gaming machine sure but it wont out preform anything in a similar price range.

Mine cost $5K probably because I only have ever needed 2TB of SSD.

But this is an old argument that seems to be thrown at Macs. Normally everything is cherry picked to show it's better than the Mac while ignoring all the features.

Although I would hope if you pay $8K you can get something that outperforms the Mac in every way.

Re: New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why a Mac mini over a $30 raspberry pi on the same residential connection?

Guess cause it'll still do local builds and stuff, and probably do a lot more of those if the agents are spamming builds and it's something like Swift or Rust that takes a lot to compile

So a $100 optiplex?

Re: New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

#305
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, for what? Most people use it only for 'internet' and 1G full duplex is generally still enough for that. Happy for 2.5G though :)

The people using Mac mini/mac studios are very likely media editors who have a NAS on the local network. 1gbit ethernet is slower than wifi at this point and incredibly outdated. 2.5gbit ethernet is quite cheap and common now.

I don't know about 'very likely' though I too know some, if you were doing that you'd buy the 10G upgrade anyway right? Or a studio which comes with 10G

Re: New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

#306
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dedicated graphics cards are faster but not to the point that it matters. It definitely matters, if you're intending to run a Claude Code/OpenCode style agent workflow. Most of those harnesses start with 8-12k token contexts, which is a lot of prefill for a Mac but cheap for a CUDA GPU. The GPGPU compute on the fastest Macs is still trailing behind Nvidia's laptop GPUs; the highest-bandwidth Apple Silicon chip (now…

Is it too much to give the harness a moment to load up the context when starting a new session? Is the brief pause truly a deal breaker?

That's my point as well. PC Graphics cards will be faster in a number of ways, but the Mac isn't slow for it to matter.

Re: New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

#307
post #248
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What will happen once people are priced out of buying computers? I find this worrying. What happens is that people start buying Chinese mini PCs, some of those even have spyware preinstalled along with another malware that is Windows 11

This is a great route. Just yank or wipe the windows disk, install Linux, and it’s way more secure and performant than any preload windows would be. It probably runs games better too.

The last Gigabyte Brix I got my hands on, ended up into the recycling center, there was no way to have Linux distributions, whichever one I tried, to boot from UEFI, while the same distributions would boot from external drives over USB.

After several months of wasted lifetime, it died and got the deserved burial at a recycling center.

Re: New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

#308
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's an accident that the market is on a trajectory toward personal computer (and particularly storage) rental being the only economically viable game. There are significant players who will profit directly. Indirectly it helps companies for whom end users owning general purpose computers and storage threaten their business models. The industry has little incentive to fix this problem and as the market…

Indeed, also to note something that younger folks keep missing, the PC revolution only happened due IBM's mistake, everyone else was vertically integrated, even with something like CP/M.

> the PC revolution only happened due IBM's mistake, everyone else was vertically integrated

IBM was extremely vertically integrated. What actually happened was that Compaq reverse engineered their BIOS and made a compatible system and the courts said it was okay.

The thing destroying the modern world is DMCA 1201. Adversarial interoperability is fundamental.

Re: New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

#309

So happy with my base M4 purchase for $499 when it released. I even snagged a 1TB replacement drive for $199 a year ago. Feels like I got the last train out.

I know it's at least a little irrational, but I am indescribably angry with the pricing trajectory of personal computing. I'm not all that young and for pretty much all my life the computers you as a random person could buy have consistently become massively more performant and massively cheaper over time. Even when the exponential performance increases started to taper off, every few years you could buy or build a n…

Please. Yes the pricing sucks, but that means more capacity to build more computers will develop. It will equalize at some point. Crashing the data center boom in a vain attempt to get a cheaper pc is a) short-sighted and selfish and b) counterproductive, bans on data centers would almost guarantee permanent high prices, or lower performing parts.

Re: New Mac mini, featuring M6 and M5 Pro

#310

> for always-on agentic computing Don’t know, but this as main ad headline feels almost like a threat to my personal home computing needs

Don't worry, there are exactly zero Apple chips that are good for any sort of local inference right now. Unified ram is fast for ram, but dogshit slow compared to actual dedicated VRAM on graphics cards.

Wish that mod who defended calling out the pro-Apple stance here sees this. Paraphrasing:

"Please don't act like a jerk on HN. There are articles and comments criticizing Apple all the time and it's fine."

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