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U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

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Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#301

Post by vel0city »

collabs wrote: post #253
giantg2 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a state school. The quality varied wildly depending on the department. It was very eye opening in the general English/writing classes when encountering people who couldn't read or write above a 4th grade level. The difference between they're, their, and there was like a riddle to some of them. Of course many didn't make it more than a semester or two. That's the big thing - the college might be dropping the…

> The quality varied wildly depending on the department. I feel like it has always been this way. I went to a small private university. The natural sciences and especially the pre-med students had their days fully packed, like the only time you could even have a moment to talk about anything was at the cafeteria during meals. Then there was the business department. The college athletes apparently picked business as a…

> The college athletes apparently picked business as a major because you have to pick something.

I actually think it makes a lot of sense to go for some kind of basic business degree if you're angling to go into professional sports. Having some basic concepts of basic business law, finance, etc. seems pretty important for someone looking to shop their abilities and likeness around and have some understanding of the contract negotiations they'll hopefully be a part of. Outside of the gym its probably the most relevant kind of skills being taught on a college campus for that career path.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#302

Post by account42 »

cogman10 wrote: post #182
ungreased0675 wrote: post #175

The University of Michigan has around a 15% acceptance rate. How is it possible that they’re letting in kids who aren’t ready to do college level work? What are they selecting for?

It's a pretty different environment going from high school to college. There's a dynamic change that's pretty sudden where your parents are no long really in the picture for support. What they are trying to do is keep the kids that would otherwise do well but might freak out in the first semester. Seems pretty fine to me especially since those are grades that if we are being honest really don't matter anyways.

Seems to me it would be fairer to kids to filter those not fit out quickly rather than to string them along.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#303

Post by t3hTao »

giantg2 wrote: post #223
ungreased0675 wrote: post #175

The University of Michigan has around a 15% acceptance rate. How is it possible that they’re letting in kids who aren’t ready to do college level work? What are they selecting for?

15% seems extremely low for a non-ivy.

The longer I live, the less I'm impressed by fancy schools.

They don't make great labor. They are normal labor with egos until the age of ~25. Then they become normal labor without egos as the system killed their ego.

I really expected some secret sauce in Ivys/UoM, and nope. Electrical Engineers there didn't know how to figure out mass of a part given density(based on material) and volume.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#304

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

Aurornis wrote: post #187
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…

> My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities.

> None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing.

Hate to break it to you mate but none of them are getting in. Anyone who lives in a neighborhood with a high proportion of kids making it to the Ivy league and other top schools knows exactly what this guy is talking about. If you think it's a fib just because you're not aware of it that's not exactly robust social commentary.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#305

Post by nobodyandproud »

cogman10 wrote: post #247
nobodyandproud wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U of M. is doing no favors to its students. While it's a different environment, that's part of growing up. Once you're on your own nobody coddles you and it can be brutal.

What harm exactly do you think giving a single semester reprieve is going to cause these students?

Quite a bit.

As a student: Grades are one of the clearest signals on whether you're a good fit for a major or topic you're interested in, you need more work, or you need to trim down the number of classes.

Not providing that clear, cumulative signal is a major disservice to the students.

Also, UofM is expensive so dragging it benefits only the financials for the school.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#306

Post by cogman10 »

account42 wrote: post #302
cogman10 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty different environment going from high school to college. There's a dynamic change that's pretty sudden where your parents are no long really in the picture for support. What they are trying to do is keep the kids that would otherwise do well but might freak out in the first semester. Seems pretty fine to me especially since those are grades that if we are being honest really don't matter anyways.

Seems to me it would be fairer to kids to filter those not fit out quickly rather than to string them along.

You assume these kids are doomed to failure and not capable of adapting. Sure, some of them are, but not everyone.

It's just 1 semester and also gives students time to switch majors if they determine it's not for them (which is also common).

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#307

Post by hirvi74 »

iamnothere wrote: post #56
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

We need to normalize a gap year, or at least a gap semester. Young adults need a break after the pressure of graduation and college admissions, and whether it’s work or travel, some perspective helps ground the college experience and make it a choice instead of an obligation. In my experience, many freshmen treated their first year as a gap year anyways, especially if they took difficult senior classes. First year cl…

I wish the US had mandatory conscription. Not necessarily military conscription, but kind of like the German model where you either do military service or public service (if I remember correctly).

I sure could have used the maturity, the money, and the time when I was younger. I learned the hard way that attending college when you have no idea what you want to do only delays your graduation date (major change absolutely fucked me).

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#309

Post by markus_zhang »

I don't know. Why are they lowering the standards again? Maybe they should raise the standard of high schools instead?

Or maybe they can help them by giving access to mental health practitioners, or maybe set some mandatory sessions to help them for the transition.

Anyway I think dropping first semester grades is a huge band-aid that they should never use. If we keep lowering the standards, maybe the whole education system is failing our children.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#310

Post by atomicnumber3 »

jcranmer wrote: post #283
ungreased0675 wrote: post #175

The University of Michigan has around a 15% acceptance rate. How is it possible that they’re letting in kids who aren’t ready to do college level work? What are they selecting for?

There are, I think, three big hurdles for freshmen in college: First, college can be a very abrupt shift from "someone is watching over you" to "you, and only you, are responsible for yourself." If you slack off in high school, someone--your parents, your teachers, your school administration--is likely to get on your ass to put you back on track, and this is more likely to be the case for people who get into tougher…

"Freshmen courses generally mitigate this somewhat to help ease in students"

Interesting, that's not my observation at all. Instead freshman classes were the most grueling experiences, intentionally weed-out classes to try to detect and, well, weed-out early those who wouldn't have the combination of grit, intelligence and organization skills to make it to the end of the degree.

I speak somewhat hyperbolically, it was never _unfair_, but the classes absolutely were paced and had homework/exam loads that you would simply be unable to cope with if you were trying to half-ass it. At my college, Calc I and Physics 1 were the big freshman showstoppers. I tested out of calc 1, but my IB HL was chemistry and as such I had a chemist's disdain (and begrudging respect) for the more academic science of physics, and while the actual topics weren't difficult, there was a LOT of homework and the exams left no stone unturned.

Comparatively, jr+ classes tended to be much more relaxed, focused more on learning the material than ensuring you are willing to do 8-10 hours of physics homework per week.

Every college is different though, I suppose.

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