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France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

lemonde.fr

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Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#301
I think this is an economic problem to solve, not a legal one.

The telephone, like postal mail, email, http and a myriad of other protocols suffers from a lack of transaction costs. Why is there so much junk postal mail? Because the post office has discounted rates for such mail.

Likewise, back when there were "long distance" tolls (nevermind the 10 cent SMS), there was less telemarketing because it was more expensive to operate call centers in each domain. I'm old enough to remember the sound of a phone ringing as evoking a happy "who could it be?" instead of "what scam is bothering me now?"

Granted, nobody is going to rewrite all the old protocols to bolt on a payment clearinghouse. And legislation is weak against a large pool of relatively minor miscreants since it requires expensive prosecutorial time to enforce, either directly in criminal law or indirectly by regulating major gateways' compliance activities.

To reduce unsolicited commercial contacts, people need to learn to accept expensive communication patterns. Currently we all already pay with the shadow work of curating contact lists, missing important calls because ringer off, deleting and marking as spam junk texts, etc. This shadow work could be reduced by accepting that a communique costs $X, with the knowledge that all the $X spent by others contacting oneself will offset one's own outbound costs.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#302
post #289

In the US, effectively 100% of the calls are criminals and scammers. I really don't understand. Isn't the government listening to all the phone calls? Wasn't that the disclosure like 2 decades ago. The very first time someone tries that dumb Yahoo security scam, the number should be automatically disconnected. I really don't get it

What benefits would the government (not the people) get from shutting down scammers? Scammers still pay taxes, and companies like Amazon that benefit from revenue obtained by scammers are major donors.

Uh, it's a representative democracy... The government isn't some nebulous mythical gorgon, it's supposedly responsive and representative of the people's needs.

Also I assure you, scammers aren't honestly filling out I-9s and W-4s adding up all the Western Union receipts. They're scamming the IRS as well

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, what country? In Spain or Sweden, I literally don't receive any calls from unknowns anymore, scammers nor telemarketing. Please specify the country so we can know what country you're talking about, and what the name of the list you enrolled in is. Worth knowing for people who might not know; large telemarketing companies have campaigns on the internet to spread FUD about the effectiveness of these lists, so les…

Most people here are American, and your reply comes off as standoffish

> Most people here are American

Whaaaat? On a American website, driven by a American VC company, are you sure? That has nothing to do with anything in the conversation...

If someone talks about "Most countries" they're not actually talking about some percentage of countries in the world generally, they're specifically talking about "most countries I know about", so when people start being fuzzy about those sort of details, it'd help all of us (not the ones from specific countries) actually understand what's going on and where. For all we know, they could be talking about India, especially since I've already added non-US context with my previous comment they themselves responded to...

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#304
post #11

Great idea! Telemarketers have ruined the phone network for me. I haven't answered an unknown call for the past 10 years, which sometimes means I miss important ones. 99.9% of all calls are an attempt to get money, and the 0.1% that's a dentist appointment, a friend that changed numbers or whatever become collateral damage. A ban is the right idea but I wonder how they can handle it, logistically. I think there needs…

Can't remember right now if it's a EU or a Spain thing, but here they made mandatory to use real numbers on the Caller ID, so you can't use fake or hidden numbers for telemarketing. That way, of you're abusing, your line can easily be tracked, blocked or fined. There has been some waves of spammer calls, more like "fake job offer calls" or things like that, coming from cell phone numbers, and there's still some telem…

Don't know if I'm missing something really important or it was genuinely hell on earth 10 years ago but in Spain I get shitspammed by scammers all the time. Android blocks most of them thankfully but some still slip through.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#305
post #89
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the French regulator mandated the telcos to implement a complete block of spoofed phone numbers That is really great. I've had a lot of trouble with calls from spoofed numbers a couple of years ago (it ended when I installed a scam blacker on my phone), and when I looked into it at that time, my impression was that phone companies couldn't block spoofed numbers. On the other hand, if the scam blocking app can block…

The problem with spoofing is that there are legitimate uses of it. It's probably solvable by only allowing spoofing of numbers you actually own (so if a hospital has 20 phone lines, they can spoof their publicly posted phone number, but random spammers can't spoof your neighbour's phone number). The fact that the phone companies haven't done this or much else yet goes to show how little they care.

It's not that they don't care, it's just that the protocol behind it was never designed for it.

Compared for example to email where when you want to send email to somebody, you discover its MX settings on the DNS level and then send it directly and the receiver can verify are you allowed to send those emails. With phone calls it's basically a network of interconnects so I'm sending the call directly to my provider but that provider to reach the destination has multiple steps and they have to trust each other with the numbers signalling. Compare it to a regular snail mail where everybody can write anything as a sender.

What most of the providers are switching to now is for enduser the case is if the phone number that you want to signal is not registered with us, you are not allowed to signal it. Which is fine and covers most of the cases but imagine that you are a business and have multiple providers And you have boughta number block with one provider and another one is offering you better minute price for outgoing calls. Or you want to have a forwarding to your cell phone number. Or you want to signal your number when you're calling prospects from CRM. The regulation usuall differs from country to country, but most allow you to signal any number that you own with any provider that you use. And this is correct, but the problem is verification.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#306
post #11

Great idea! Telemarketers have ruined the phone network for me. I haven't answered an unknown call for the past 10 years, which sometimes means I miss important ones. 99.9% of all calls are an attempt to get money, and the 0.1% that's a dentist appointment, a friend that changed numbers or whatever become collateral damage. A ban is the right idea but I wonder how they can handle it, logistically. I think there needs…

In Spain we have something called "Lista Robinson" (in Sweden exists something similar, called "NIX-registret") which are basically opt-in lists where you can enter your phone number, then once the new lists been distributed, the telemarketing companies cannot call you, if they're doing things properly. If they call anyway, you just mention you're on the list, they hang up, and remove your number from the list they h…

Who wants these calls? It ends up that the people that don't know that these lists exist (my grandma) still receive these calls - so everyone who's likely to be baited in buying something they don't need for way too much money.

Also, it depends on the company keeping their word that they won't call you when you are on this list.

Nobody needs or wants these calls, they are always some company wanting to upsell you something you don't really need, they shouldn't be opt-out.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the case in France too, it was called Bloctel; you just had to register your phone number and telemarketing companies had a legal obligation to look it up and not call you. So it worked for a time, legit companies stoped calling; however most people didn't knew about Bloctel as it was little advertised. Meanwhile, spam calls turned into scam calls, and a real issue especially with the elderly. So I think that…

We have that kind of list in Italy too. I registered my number and I keep getting calls, so I stopped answering to numbers not in my contacts list. If I know that somebody will be calling me, I ask for the number and I add it to the list.

Have you tried answering and then just saying the name of the list you've enrolled in? Tends to help propagate to the companies that they absolutely should not call the number again. At least here the companies tend to actively self-moderate and cross-reference against the lists, as the law does get enforced. When I worked in cold-calling call centers in the past, I remember they being strict with teaching the "marketers" what to do when people brought up the local list(s).

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#310
post #11

Great idea! Telemarketers have ruined the phone network for me. I haven't answered an unknown call for the past 10 years, which sometimes means I miss important ones. 99.9% of all calls are an attempt to get money, and the 0.1% that's a dentist appointment, a friend that changed numbers or whatever become collateral damage. A ban is the right idea but I wonder how they can handle it, logistically. I think there needs…

In Spain we have something called "Lista Robinson" (in Sweden exists something similar, called "NIX-registret") which are basically opt-in lists where you can enter your phone number, then once the new lists been distributed, the telemarketing companies cannot call you, if they're doing things properly. If they call anyway, you just mention you're on the list, they hang up, and remove your number from the list they h…

i put my number on the list and it worked great for a bit until spam calls started calling from outside the country. At least now I know not to answer calls from outside the country. I see a ton of people moved over to actual calls via whatsapp though.
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