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Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

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Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#301

Post by lettergram »

kej wrote: post #58

I feel like all of these laws are being designed backwards. Content providers, like MPAA films, should have to identify what sort of content they are providing. Then I can give my kids a device configured to allow some or all of that at my discretion. Requiring my kids' devices to advertise their age (or their age "bucket", as if that was a meaningful difference) to protect them is not doing me or my kids any favors.

I think you’re missing the real purpose vs the stated purpose.

The point is monitoring everyone, age verification requires you to share who you are.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#302

Post by kube-system »

tessierashpool wrote: post #298
kube-system wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our FOSS code is constitutionally protected free speech and I would defend on those grounds. You have precisely zero additional speech rights as a FOSS project than any other organization has. If "free speech" was a valid defense for you, then Meta would be doing the same. > The technical design of the project just makes it so no one can force changes on the distro unwanted by the maintainer team regardless of any…

> If "free speech" was a valid defense for you, then Meta would be doing the same. Meta lobbied heavily for this. The fact that they have not decided to use free speech to fight the move that they are lobbying for is not an argument that free speech is irrelevant here. This is not legal advice but a personal request: please do not get your legal advice from Hacker News. Get it from a lawyer.

Alright, then let me rephrase:

> If "free speech" was a valid defense to any legal compliance laws that affect software, then any software company would raise this defense this rather than comply.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#303

Post by LukeShu »

novafunc wrote: post #155
PunchyHamster wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC systemd already started implementing some hooks for age verification API

systemd added a field where users can add their date of birth. It's completely optional. It's not implementing age implementation, but can be used as a place to store a DOB in an age verification system.

NB that you could already add your own freeform fields; it just added that field to userdbctl and friends.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#305

Post by txrx0000 »

This is worse than the California one. Since this applies to all Internet-capable operating systems, it's effectively forcing people to utter their age bracket in order to communicate digitally, which is compelled speech - a violation of the First Amendment.

Here's an idea for the lawmakers that actually want to solve the digital parenting problem: fix the mobile OS duopoly with antitrust. Most kids only know how to use touchscreen devices. If you force mobile hardware vendors to ship smartphones without an OS, then we will get plenty of forks of Android and even entirely new OSes as a result of natural demand, some of which will be toy OSes with all of the child features built in. We'll also get scam-proof OSes for the elderly as a bonus. There is no good reason for the entire population to use the same OS.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#306

Post by weakened_malloc »

xp84 wrote: post #265
quotemstr wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Controlling my information consumption is not a legitimate function of the state. If algorithmic feeds get a lot of use, it's because people like them . Is that so hard to comprehend? That your preferences are not universal? And that you shouldn't use the government to bludgeon people into accepting the kind of information feed you, personally, would prefer for them? What gives you the right to do so? What you callin…

Great, let's legalize recreational fentanyl too, since 'whatever people seem to like' is good for society. In this case, unless you're a child, nobody's trying to control what content you consume. And if you are a parent and want to make sure your children can continue to consume the most addictive possible social media, by all means lie about their age. The law does nothing to stop you from doing so. By contrast, ha…

> By contrast, having zero mechanism for the rest of the parents to control this, as is the current case, does impose your "do whatever feels good" values on the rest of the world.

Parental controls? They take 5mins to setup.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#307

Post by noman-land »

txrx0000 wrote: post #305

This is worse than the California one. Since this applies to all Internet-capable operating systems, it's effectively forcing people to utter their age bracket in order to communicate digitally, which is compelled speech - a violation of the First Amendment. Here's an idea for the lawmakers that actually want to solve the digital parenting problem: fix the mobile OS duopoly with antitrust. Most kids only know how to…

Does this mean you need to register your children and their ages with your smart fridge?

The Epsteinocracy wants to know how many children you have and exactly how young they are.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#308

Post by iamnothere »

lrvick wrote: post #234
otterley wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument has been going on for decades, and has had few victories in the court system. The DMCA, which prohibits trafficking in anticircumvention devices, even though there's a lot of code in them, is still alive and well.

And the DMCA has been rightfully weakened to the point that archive.org has every Nintendo Gamecube game ever made hosted for the public, for years, uncontested. So too will these other silly laws go I expect.

Not only that, but people like myself are working on underground distribution networks in case they’re ever needed.

Absolute worst case we’ll do sneakernet. More likely we’ll just distribute via overlay networks.

Some of us are crazy enough to be full on free speech martyrs, believe it or not.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#309

Post by LukeShu »

miohtama wrote: post #192
PunchyHamster wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC systemd already started implementing some hooks for age verification API

AFAIK they were implemented by Microsoft staff.

It was not. It was implemented by Dylan Taylor, an outside contributor who works at a fintech company in North Carolina, and has made it his hobby to submit PRs implementing age verification to all kinds of projects. The systemd maintainer who clicked "merge" (Luca Boccassi) does work at Microsoft.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#310

Post by iamnothere »

hnlmorg wrote: post #264
lrvick wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being afraid and hoping you are never forced to add code to a project you do not want to add is letting the chilling effects work as designed. We need to all loudly and publicly say "Fuck off, I will defend my rights if needed", so they understand how expensive the fight is going to be. Fear is power. Do not give your enemies power.

People don’t disagree with your moral position. The problem is you’re bringing a butter knife to a drone fight. There are more effective ways protest this law than posting punk-rhetoric on a nerd forum for a project that will likely fly under the governments radar anyway.

Public expressions of defiance are motivating to people who don’t yet recognize that they have allies.
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