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How we can reduce traffic congestion

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Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#301

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

sanex wrote: post #116
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's estimated that only 37% of jobs can be done remotely, while 72%-86% of US workers rely on cars for commuting. The best solution involves creating a multitude of non-car transportation options, to allow workers to choose the most convenient mode of transport, maximizing potential non-car commuting. Bike/ebike, e-scooter, motorcycle/scooter, golf cart, bus, tram, subway, train, ferry.

I would occasionally go to the office toward the tail end of covid and traffic was essentially non existent. We were well past the big lockdowns and shuttered restaurants at that point but RTO hadn't kicked in. It wouldn't take much to drastically change the traffic landscape.

Traffic was lower after COVID because of how many people (who couldn't work remote) lost their jobs, an overall economic downturn affecting logistics chains, and people afraid of public transit. Not because everyone was blissfully working from home. It would indeed take a lot to change traffic (without causing significant economic harm)

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#302

Post by philipallstar »

zarzavat wrote: post #299
philipallstar wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People take public transport it's better than driving Public transport is also much more expensive, particularly when you have more than one person in the vehicle, even with loads of tax added to car fuel, doesn't depart from your house or arrive at your destination, and means you can't take much stuff with you.

Driving is more expensive than public transport when you factor in the cost of the vehicle, maintenance, fuel, insurance, taxes, parking, etc. If driving were more cheaper than public transport then nobody would use it. Yet, almost wherever you go in the world if you go to a station at 8am on a weekday it will be full of people.

> If driving were more cheaper than public transport then nobody would use it. Yet, almost wherever you go in the world if you go to a station at 8am on a weekday it will be full of people.

This logic is devastatingly simplistic. Think about the most obvious counter-example: people who have car sometimes take the train. Even after they've paid all those car fees, they'll take the train for £50 rather than drive for £8 in car fuel. Why?

It's because there isn't an objective tier list for vehicles. E.g. if I'm going through central London I'll use the Underground because London is so densely populated going by car isn't always feasible. But if you're going somewhere in London with a baby then you might well take the hit and drive, because you have a lot of stuff to bring with you, and the Underground is unpleasant and hot, which the baby will not appreciate.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#303

Post by mistrial9 »

simondotau wrote: post #206
trymas wrote: post #156

How we can reduce traffic congestion? 1. Extensive support of public transport: metro, tram, dedicated bus routes (separate from car traffic), dedicated paths for bicycles. 2. ... maybe whatever is this ... UPDATE: here's a good graph - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport#/media/File:P... , i.e. car traffic is often congested because of inherent low passenger bandwith. If google wants to manage traffic as…

People will generally choose whichever mode of transport is most convenient and cost-effective, based on how they rationally (or irrationally) weigh various factors. If every road were free of traffic, every destination had unlimited parking at the door, everyone already owned a car, and driving carried no direct or indirect costs, almost everyone would drive everywhere. The only way to shift people onto public trans…

> People will generally choose whichever mode of transport is most convenient

ok that is one fourth of the conversation, or less.. sure, marketing and economic signals.. got it.

The historic rise of the personal auto versus all else was partly fueled by a social dynamic where "privelage is defined by the ability to remove yourself from the dirty and dangerous crowds of non-privelaged humans".. Autos have dramatically filled the transportation sector because clean and intelligent ME can ride next to foul dangerous person YOU without contact reliably.

Notice the profound growth of personal aircraft for the newly wealthy. Google upper-levels are famous for this. Personal aircraft are some of the most anti-ecological and anti-efficient modes of transport ever.. check out the stocks and sales figures.. huge growth in the last years.

America and others have successfully made ugly reality of social constructs into marketing talk and "rational decisions" but the reality is not fully described by those IMHO

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#304

Post by philipallstar »

thunderfork wrote: post #294
philipallstar wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making driving worse instead of making public transport better is such a public sector-brained take.

Sometimes you have to nerf something because it's been buffed too many times, beyond what's sustainable or reasonable

It's only really been buffed by the facts you don't have to pay for massive custom vehicles or drivers, and market dynamics (and the corresponding incredible features and amazing factory and transportation efficiencies) mean cars are extremely good value for money for a lot of people.

In other words: there's a profit motive, so people get something really good for their money.

Public transport is frequently a monopoly or semi-monopoly, and there is power available (the people running the public transport also get to set rules for drivers), and exercising power is much, much easier than competing in a market.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#305

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

Laurel1234 wrote: post #192
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's estimated that only 37% of jobs can be done remotely, while 72%-86% of US workers rely on cars for commuting. The best solution involves creating a multitude of non-car transportation options, to allow workers to choose the most convenient mode of transport, maximizing potential non-car commuting. Bike/ebike, e-scooter, motorcycle/scooter, golf cart, bus, tram, subway, train, ferry.

37% is a huge amount though. Obviously fixing the problem would require many different solutions to come together, but that's an immense improvement that can be made with a mere law.

Remote work is worth pursuing, but there are less negative solutions to traffic (requiring everyone work remote would destroy local economies). Paris is an example of a better traffic solution. They simply got rid of cars from the city center; no need to reconfigure the economy, just take different transit to work.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#306

Post by simondotau »

philipallstar wrote: post #276
simondotau wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will generally choose whichever mode of transport is most convenient and cost-effective, based on how they rationally (or irrationally) weigh various factors. If every road were free of traffic, every destination had unlimited parking at the door, everyone already owned a car, and driving carried no direct or indirect costs, almost everyone would drive everywhere. The only way to shift people onto public trans…

Making driving worse instead of making public transport better is such a public sector-brained take.

You misunderstood my comment. Driving is made worse by the presence of other people driving. Government can partially mitigate it by spending taxpayer money on building more road infrastructure. Or for a fraction of the cost, making public transit better.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#307

Post by nradov »

inigyou wrote: post #250
abc123abc123 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. In the future, only billionaires and politicians shall be allowed private travel. The common man shall be crammed into public transport where he can sweat, sneeze, touch, grab etc. the rest of the common man. Forcing the public to abandon the comfort of private travel seems right out of the WEF playbook.

Comfort? The hassle of parking a car makes the train the nicer option, all by itself!

What hassle? Most of the places where I drive my cars have abundant free parking.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#308

Post by yabones »

ventana wrote: post #49

The same things keeps happening every time I find myself stuck in traffic on the interstate. Out of nowhere, a popup appears in Google Maps: a faster route is available! 4 minutes faster! Unless either the passenger or the driver are fast enough to hit "No thanks", the change auto-applies, and Google now wants me to exit the interstate at the nearest exit and drive some random road I had no idea about, to rejoin the…

It once made me exit the highway, using the nearly empty exit ramp, then do a U-turn on the surface street and get back using the lightly used entrance ramp. Wow, all that effort to move about 250m forward in traffic, saving me perhaps 30 seconds of time on my 3 hour drive. Very "over-optimized" software does bizarre stuff that no sane person would ever do.

Re: How we can reduce traffic congestion

#310

Post by creaturemachine »

philipallstar wrote: post #304
thunderfork wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes you have to nerf something because it's been buffed too many times, beyond what's sustainable or reasonable

It's only really been buffed by the facts you don't have to pay for massive custom vehicles or drivers, and market dynamics (and the corresponding incredible features and amazing factory and transportation efficiencies) mean cars are extremely good value for money for a lot of people. In other words: there's a profit motive, so people get something really good for their money. Public transport is frequently a monopol…

So you bought a car for a good price full of features, good for you. Now where are you going to drive the thing? Can you build your own road wherever you want to go? No, only the state can build roads? How could we allow such a monopoly over our lives.

Now you say there are rules to follow on these roads, with enforcement, meaning someone has power over you the entire time? Yikes.

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