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Half-Baked Product

weli.dev

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Re: Half-Baked Product

#301

Post by gmueckl »

whstl wrote: post #199
red_admiral wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the fundamental problem is what Paul Graham pointed out here: https://www.paulgraham.com/startupideas.html "The way to get startup ideas is not to try to think of startup ideas. It's to look for problems, preferably problems you have yourself. Why do so many founders build things no one wants? Because they begin by trying to think of startup ideas. That m.o. is doubly dangerous: it doesn't merely yield few goo…

I dunno, going back to the article, at some point customers are getting exactly what they're asking for: "their kitchens are custom-built, so they need ovens with specific dimensions. Oh, and a rotating base like the one they already have." “My oven at home connects to the fireplace. Does yours?” “I make a lot of wedding cakes, what have you got for me?” “Do you have a Ramadan mode?” Those are all problems. But are t…

A lot pf good products are a combination of features that customers need and use and features they think they need and ask for, but never use. But the sales wouldn't be as good without them. It's a bit comical once it becomes apparent, but it is a widespread pattern.

Re: Half-Baked Product

#302

Post by doubleorseven »

jayd16 wrote: post #285
doubleorseven wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the real problem with home dishwasher is that it extend the duration of the task. the task is prepare food, eat, clean. when you leave the kitchen and come back the next day the task is now different, its unpack, prepare,eat,clean. you are constantly not finishing today's tasks. it lives to see another day. if you can fix it, bound it to the workflow, you will be a billionaire

Easy. Just keep your dishes in the dishwasher instead of the shelf.

oh yes, the two dishwashers solution

Re: Half-Baked Product

#303

Post by codingdave »

brap wrote: post #159

We keep seeing this. If you had to point out the fundamental problem, what would it be? I think it’s the disconnect. Each persona is an expert in their own field but is completely oblivious to other critical areas. The founder knows how to raise money but doesn’t really understand the customers. The engineer knows the tech but doesn’t really understand what it takes to keep the business afloat. The salesperson knows…

> The salesperson knows what customers want

No, and neither does anyone else in these scenarios. Almost all startups are trying to build something new that they want people to want. But customers almost universally do not want your product. They don't give a crap about you or your product. What they care about is delivering their own product and/or achieving their own goals. Your product is a tool. If it is a tool that helps them for a reasonable price, they will buy it. But never be fooled into thinking "They want my product". They don't. They want an effective tool to to meeting their own needs. Your product wins when it is that tool.

Re: Half-Baked Product

#306

Post by jenadine »

hwh wrote: post #209
ogoffart wrote: post #55

Similar story here. Even though our ovens actually work fine, the problem is a new competitor: OpenOven. Their oven is completely free, and on the Italian forum everyone talks about them. It has even way more buttons than ours (most don't work very well, but the community loves it). We almost sold to MrBaguette, one of the biggest bakery chains in the world, as they wanted new oven supplier for their next generation…

I started OpenOven in my free time of which I had a lot when I was still studying law. Ovens were always something I was interested in and I created FunkyPizzaHeater, as it was named when I started it, only to play around with the tech. I published it on the Italian Oven forums and it really hit a nerve, there were immediately 2 people who took the design a bit further. People tried building them and posted photos, t…

I just saw the news that you raised another 1.2 billion. Congrats!

If I may ask how do you actually plan to make money? Because as far as I can tell, you're still losing a lot of money on every oven you give away.

Re: Half-Baked Product

#308

Post by TacticalCoder »

trinari wrote: post #216
teiferer wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The defense is of course that some people can do that - Musk did it, so why not? If you think that Musk did his endeavors in order to become rich, you are likely mistaken.

What drives him then? Power?

Some people are just driven. A friend of mine who failed at a first startup (in a domain in which he had lots of expertise) then succeeded with his second startup: very nice exit but that's not why he was doing it.

He's an action junkie.

In both cases he saw inefficiencies and just wanted to spend the energy he's always been overflowing with to improve things. I don't know about Musk but my friend hates mediocrity and saw everything as something he can improve.

In another case I was in car, for a long trip, with someone else (who was working to become an... Ambassador: hardly the tech type!) and that person would constantly comment on what could be done enhanced.

Something something about personality types, the builders, etc.

Those who only ever want to spend the money of --and benefit from the wealth created by-- others are going to dismiss it all as "people who are after money" but it's more complicated than that and you can't generalize people.

I know several doctors for example: two of them are clearly money-driven (one of them literally told me "I'd never ever teach medicine, I'm in this only for the money") but most of the others I know are just happy to help people be more healthy.

I've got another friend, not rich at all, he's working an additional job as a firefighter: sure it brings some money, but that's not the reason. He's also an action junkie. He was there driving ambulances during Covid: to be helpful, for the action, etc.

It's not all about money. Thinking it's only about money is a mindset that often comes from those who want the money of others (through taxes).

Re: Half-Baked Product

#309

Post by icegreentea2 »

rdbl27 wrote: post #255
icegreentea2 wrote: post #237

I like this part: The founder gets angry. He promised the VCs 10% of Spain’s oven market. The entire market. “We can’t sacrifice any of them.” It’s not just greed. The 5 million was raised with the entire market on the slide. The founder isn’t choosing between right and wrong: he’s choosing which promise to break. I wonder what the author had in mind when he wrote "which promise to break". Is the founder thinking abo…

He's coldly rational: The investors gave him $5 million. Large commitment, large risk. Each customer gives him 15k per unit. Even a rare large customer who buys 100 ovens gives him 150k. Small commitment, small risk. If he breaks his promise to the investors, he can't raise more money easily. It will be very hard to find another $5 million. If he breaks his promise to the customers with a garbage product, he can more…

From a rational standpoint, I don't understand how investors could feel betrayed by a pivot that involves creating two ovens to eventually allow the founder to capture 10% of the market. Functionally, I can't imagine a single investor actually caring about these details. They don't care about the number of buttons, or if it can do wedding cakes, or whatever. They care that the founder and team demonstrates competence in their decision making and execution.

If a founder is able to spin and control both the loss of a major potential customer, and the low customer satisfaction rate (weak follow up from pilots) to the investors, I simply cannot imagine that doing 2 product lines is that much of a big deal.

More personally, I'd feel that if it truly were a coldly rational decision, the founder would feel confident in defending his choices (at least against any initial suggestions to the contrary) without resorting to anger.

Re: Half-Baked Product

#310

Post by estetlinus »

move-on-by wrote: post #94

I remember sitting in on a sales meeting early in my career. I kept quiet, but afterwards I complained to my manager that they were selling features that didn’t exist and conflicted with core concepts of the product. My manager told me that was how sales were made. I left the company not long after, I was already disgruntled prior to that discussion. I’ve seen the same thing everywhere I go. I don’t have the disposit…

How is that company doing today?

I think there’s a balance to it. You have to meet the customer, and also understand your boundaries. I’ve sold non-existent features that I was unsure if I could deliver, but always solved it since I’m good at smooth talking. I’ll make sure what I deliver brings value, and keep a dialogue with the client. Sales relations are rarely static from my experience.

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