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Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

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Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#301

Post by frollogaston »

wk_end wrote: post #297
frollogaston wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That all assumes it's a medically necessary procedure, which is exactly what people disagree about. And again, no mention of coworkers in that quote at least, not said in a work setting either.

What's medically necessary is for a person and their own doctors to decide on, not for you or some AI engineer or anyone else to disagree about.

Not when public money is involved, which pro-trans voices absolutely want it to be. And even without it, society does have reasons to concern itself with how parents treat their children. There's no side that separates the responsibilities, it's just a matter of who thinks this is socially right.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#302

Post by afavour »

electriclove wrote: post #30
thewebguyd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That twitter story isn't anything unique to OpenAI or Google, it's just classic "big public corp vs private startup" culture. Once you have to worry about the SEC, shareholders, antitrust, regulations, lawsuits, etc. it's very, very difficult to avoid turning into "big corp" culture. Sama, and any other founder, will always have a difficult fight against bureaucracy, and once you let a little bit in, the bureaucracy'…

Google and Apple both need a culling similar to what Elon did with Twitter after taking over.

Eh, what has X/Twitter delivered since the cull? It’s basically in maintenance mode. Which is fine if that’s what you want to do, but Google and Apple definitely don’t (and I’m glad for that)

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#303

Post by bbeonx »

tomhow wrote: post #290
bbeonx wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please don't comment like this here. The HN guidelines ask us not to engage in political or ideological battle or use swipes like "comically stupid take". Same goes for your other comment in this thread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48590901 ) – "sigh how are so many brilliant people this stupid?" adds nothing but venom to the discussion. Please read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them if you w…

the first post was a swipe, i'll grant you. probably shouldn't have said it. it was a knee-jerk reaction to a structurally fallacious argument that leaves no room for discussion: "i reject your stance not based on reason, evidence, or anything that you can interact with, but based on an new presupposition i've just now decided is true". though i'll admit the severity of my knee jerking was probably amplified by some of the other opinions he holds.

the second post is actually about (a) me having understanding for a position of someone i disagree with harshly, and (b) the logical structure of an argument, not the underlying topic itself. it was in reference to the content of the link that was posted.

anyway, mods can take it down, i get why the rules are there. you're also right to ask folks to keep it clean. but i stand by it; dude just seems to have a trifecta of awful traits and i'm so so so tired of super rich tech dudes ruining the world.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#304

Post by bbeonx »

frollogaston wrote: post #184
bbeonx wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Referring to this or what? Reddit post is gone, but Yahoo has something. > "I do not believe that humans have an attribute called gender," Shazeer wrote, news site the Information reported Friday. "I do not believe that G-d puts people in the wrong bodies. I do not believe that it is okay to sterilize children. You have the right to your beliefs. I do not share them." It's not dumb, and it's ridiculous if Google real…

yeah, the argument is ridiculous; like, formally, it is ridiculous. i also disagree with the sentiment and conclusions of the argument, but the actual form of the argument is garbage: "i introduce an axiom that says there is no gender and therefore the distinction between sex and gender doesn't exist".

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#305

Post by rat9988 »

dang wrote: post #299
nrds wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not a question of painful - I'm happy to "admit" what's true, as best I can, and not what's not true. Let's see if we can sort that out a bit in the present case. HN is certainly curated - I've been "admitting" that since the day I got outed as a mod here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7494621 (March 2014) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7507229 (April 2014) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=79629…

The current case still seems very heavy on personal preference. Principles application is subjective as we are all human. I found the comment as interesting as the quote it is answering.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#306

Post by dang »

rat9988 wrote: post #305
dang wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a question of painful - I'm happy to "admit" what's true, as best I can, and not what's not true. Let's see if we can sort that out a bit in the present case. HN is certainly curated - I've been "admitting" that since the day I got outed as a mod here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7494621 (March 2014) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7507229 (April 2014) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=79629…

The current case still seems very heavy on personal preference. Principles application is subjective as we are all human. I found the comment as interesting as the quote it is answering.

It does seem more of a borderline case to me when I reread it, too.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#307

Post by HDThoreaun »

Herring wrote: post #294
electriclove wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Apple both need a culling similar to what Elon did with Twitter after taking over.

Is that you Musk? Twitter lost half its revenue, more than 80% of its valuation.

That was mostly because Elon told advertisers to fuck themselves at an advertising convention no?

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#308

Post by frollogaston »

bbeonx wrote: post #304
frollogaston wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Referring to this or what? Reddit post is gone, but Yahoo has something. > "I do not believe that humans have an attribute called gender," Shazeer wrote, news site the Information reported Friday. "I do not believe that G-d puts people in the wrong bodies. I do not believe that it is okay to sterilize children. You have the right to your beliefs. I do not share them." It's not dumb, and it's ridiculous if Google real…

yeah, the argument is ridiculous; like, formally, it is ridiculous. i also disagree with the sentiment and conclusions of the argument, but the actual form of the argument is garbage: "i introduce an axiom that says there is no gender and therefore the distinction between sex and gender doesn't exist".

He thinks there's no gender. I could give reasons why I disagree, but not proof, same with the religion he kinda mentions.

Re: Noam Shazeer Joins OpenAI

#309

Post by bbeonx »

altmanaltman wrote: post #169
bbeonx wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

sorry, is this in response to my post? in which case, this is exactly the distinction i'm making. the entire argument is whether or not there _is_ a distinction; my point is that this guy just, a priori, decides gender doesn't exist. but there is plenty of evidence that it does. there are plenty of social traits associated with sex that differ across different cultures: pink used to be a manly color, now it's a feminine color; "be a man" doesn't literally mean "make sure your sex is male"; etc. there are traits that are heavily correlated with a person's sex that are culturally reinforced, and this is distinct from their sex.
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