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GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

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Re: GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

#301

Post by clear-octopus »

Certhas wrote: post #221
bradhe wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got it, so every country should focus on having a mediocre-at-best AI strategy by refusing to work together? Surely this will create a better future instead of pooling resources. This vaguely-nationalist world view around tech that’s emerging in Europe is dangerous, man. On the brain drain problem in particular, one way to ensure talent sticks around is to create a good environment for people to do their best work. I…

This "vaguely nationalistic world view around tech" is a direct consequence of the US government weaponizing its leading tech firms reach into the EU for nationalistic purposes. The EU was build on the principles of collaboration, to overcome the nationalistic impulses. Free trade and free movement of people, no need for everyone to replicate what everyone else is doing. Preventing individual nation states from favor…

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Re: GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

#302

Post by clear-octopus »

Gud wrote: post #170
bradhe wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got it, so every country should focus on having a mediocre-at-best AI strategy by refusing to work together? Surely this will create a better future instead of pooling resources. This vaguely-nationalist world view around tech that’s emerging in Europe is dangerous, man. On the brain drain problem in particular, one way to ensure talent sticks around is to create a good environment for people to do their best work. I…

Why would it have to be mediocre? Both Netherlands and Sweden produce highly competent researchers. Per capita on par with any other location on the planet, including California. This will be good for Europe as a whole and also the planet.

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Re: GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

#303

Post by clear-octopus »

torginus wrote: post #251
bradhe wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got it, so every country should focus on having a mediocre-at-best AI strategy by refusing to work together? Surely this will create a better future instead of pooling resources. This vaguely-nationalist world view around tech that’s emerging in Europe is dangerous, man. On the brain drain problem in particular, one way to ensure talent sticks around is to create a good environment for people to do their best work. I…

wdym? it says 13.5 million euros has been allocated to the project - you aint building a frontier LLM with that kind of money, but its enough to give research opportunities and real-world experience to a handful of researchers, and build up local competence. These people can then fund for-profit companies once they have a promising approach and bring in private investment. As for nationalism, like it or not, this is…

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Re: GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

#304

Post by dminik »

WarmWash wrote: post #272
dminik wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some additional points to consider: 1. Pay the workers in company scrip and relocate the workers to a company town. That way, all workers are fully dedicated to the company. 2. Start importing slaves from Africa again. It worked to build up massive wealth. Should do the trick for AI as well. 3. Abolish the 8 hour work day. No comment needed. With these 3 simple tricks, you too can get 6-7 bazillion euro AI mammoths.

No, we don't need any slavery. The employees at these AI companies will almost certainly out earn most if not all other local white collar workers, while also getting top tier benefits. They can also quit at any time if they don't like it or don't think it is fair.

We'll, someone has to do RLHF.

Re: GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

#305

Post by TalkingCodeMonk »

user43928 wrote: post #275
TalkingCodeMonk wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you take the time to read independent analysis on the benefits of corporate subsidies in America. I know I've read of many cases where they cost cities and communities far more than the economic activity they promise to generate (eg Amazon warehouses and sportsball stadiums). Subsidies could make strategic sense in the case of AI, but it's terrible economics to encourage businesses that take more from commu…

Data centers are known to create few local jobs while requiring upgrades to the power grid or water infrastructure. Wouldn't that make it important to subsidize them at the national level, precisely for that reason? Otherwise it seems likely to be a NIMBY problem. But now I'm talking about data centers, the main thing we lack here is AI research labs, is it not? I think those should create many jobs.

Why should taxpayers anywhere pay private enterprises to create infrastructure they own and control for-profit, rather than just cutting out the monopoly middle man and establishing that infrastructure as a public utility who services the domestic economy, equally?

This is the kind of madness I'm talking about. If taxpayers have to subsidise products and services the "free" market refuses to provide, they should have direct ownership in the profits; not just the losses. Why is the default for society to subsidise expenses and privatise profits? That is ideologically-driven dogmatic insanity, which allows select individuals and foreign entities control over the national economy and its security, and is the entire reason madmen in the USA have the EU (and world) by the balls.

Re: GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

#306

Post by TalkingCodeMonk »

WarmWash wrote: post #273
TalkingCodeMonk wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "greed is good, and should be rewarded" philosophy is one I see all too often on HN, and the entire reason why Americas political, regulatory, and business leadership have been overrun by the countries most criminally corrupt narcissists and psychopaths; why its democracy has collapsed. When you reward the most selfish, corrupt, and antisocial behaviours with wealth and power, you're guaranteed to create a selfi…

No greed will be rewarded. If European consumers don't like the end AI models that are produced, they can forgo buying them and the investors can watch their fortress burn. For the EU taxpayer, nothing was gained and nothing was lost. All the state did was stand out of the way. If the models are good though, they will have their sovereign AI and should be happy to pay for it instead of American or Chinese models. You…

> For the EU taxpayer, nothing was gained and nothing was lost.

Except for the "massive" subsidies you advocated for, right? Except for the massive cost to provide utilities and infrastructure to support those businesses? Except for the cost to support the employees they refuse to provide minimum "protections" for? Except for any damage they do to the local environment?

You seem to think that businesses exist in a vaccum where they have no impact on society or its population, except when they succeed and everyone should be eternally grateful. This is the systemic greed and narcissism America exports to the world; not just through its businesses, but its media and population across forums such as this one, and is exactly what I'm talking about.

Re: GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

#307

Post by mannanj »

Gud wrote: post #293
mannanj wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The us stopped being looked at as a superpower as a brain rotted Alzheimer’s patients president rose to power on the campaign “don’t let Trump win” and then did little productive except stoke wars and pardon his son and his friends from crimes.

I’m assuming you’re talking about Biden, and no, not really. Still considered a superpower. Up until the second Trump presidency, most of us outside the USA had basically the same opinion as we had before. Pretty messed up politics , but strong economy and strong military. The first minor dip was with Trumps first presidency. But shit went downhill fast with his second, unfettered reign when MAGA took total control o…

I don't know, I don't really buy that this all went downhill with Trump. It's easy to say that about someone you don't like and fail to overlook all the signs with someone you like.

Re: GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

#308

Post by Gud »

mannanj wrote: post #307
Gud wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m assuming you’re talking about Biden, and no, not really. Still considered a superpower. Up until the second Trump presidency, most of us outside the USA had basically the same opinion as we had before. Pretty messed up politics , but strong economy and strong military. The first minor dip was with Trumps first presidency. But shit went downhill fast with his second, unfettered reign when MAGA took total control o…

I don't know, I don't really buy that this all went downhill with Trump. It's easy to say that about someone you don't like and fail to overlook all the signs with someone you like.

I didn’t have a problem with Trump during his first term.

It was clear he was unfit to be a president, but he was mostly golfing.

Re: GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

#309

Post by flanked-evergl »

creesch wrote: post #218
flanked-evergl wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if morality is just personal preference why do we even allude to it at all?

Is that what I said in your mind? I honestly had to chuckle at the extreme hyperboles you decided to use. Surely having a less favorable view of hyper capitalist economics is on the same level as torture and genocide. Yup, that is a totally reasonable and measured response that just exemplifies acting in good faith. Anyway, thanks for genuine chuckle your response got out of me.

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Re: GPT‑NL: a sovereign language model for the Netherlands

#310

Post by spacemanspiffii »

nradov wrote: post #295
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're vastly underestimating the economic importance of EU integration.

Is that why the EU economic growth rate is so stagnant?

Simplistic reply without substance. The EU economic growth is influenced by much more than just the integration. It can be stagnant not because but despite the integration. It could also be the case that EU integration was an attempt to improve economy but it didn't work out.
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