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American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

economist.com

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Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#301

Post by srean »

crossbody wrote: post #297
srean wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I accept the criticism in name but cannot invalidate a lived experience just because it has not been quantified accurately. > majority of that middle class moved on to the upper class Is this true in the US in inflation adjusted terms ? Can say that it is certainly reversed direction in my country.

Yes, people are getting wealthier in real terms, including the poor. Especially if you quantify it the right way: absolute consumption/expenditures, not relative % from median income (relative count will always show there are poor people even if they would appear insanely "rich" to a poor person from 100 years ago or from Afghanistan). On lived experience: my lived experience tells me the Earth is flat.

> my lived experience tells me the Earth is flat.

That ship has sailed, beyond the horizon. Hope you catch the reference.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#302

Post by ryandrake »

intended wrote: post #199
matrix87 wrote: post #25

I'm kind of confused. It's not clear to me how or why the line keeps going up. People are spending less because of economic insecurity, everything is more expensive because of tariffs and war, interest rates have been high for four years. The general cultural mood feels unsustainable. Like the peak-woke period around 2022 before the pendulum swung really hard in the opposite direction. I don't know if there's a word…

K-shaped economy, Asset bubble, and AI spending. The retail / average consumer in America is seeing a very different world than the rich and ultra rich.

Yes. When people say "The economy" is improving, they are only talking about the stock market, which primarily effects rich investors and old people's retirement.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#303

Post by bluefirebrand »

hparadiz wrote: post #211
bluefirebrand wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 25k saved per year is a million after twenty years with a modest very conservative amount. Close to 25% of people in America only make 25k a year. Forget saving that much You are wildly out of touch with the average person and their struggles to think that 25k saved per year is even remotely achievable for most people

I dunno why people keep bringing this up as some sort of gotcha. You don't save for retirement based on your average. You do it during your peak earning years. Which are far above average. And most households have more than one earner. So even a 5% savings based on a median 84k household yields over 750k in 20 years. Like it literally is that simple.

The number I am finding for the median household expenses for America is $67,000 annually. That's just essentials, housing, food, transportation, insurance, healthcare

So if your median household makes 84k, and your median household spends 67k on necessities, where is the money coming from for saving 5%? The difference is only 17k

It doesn't take much to eat up 17k. A car repair, house repair, or hospital stay (in America at least) will easily reduce that to zero or negatives

So I dunno man. It doesn't seem that simple.

Edit: and keep in mind that median does mean that a pretty large proportion of people make less than that number too. Sometimes significantly less

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#304

Post by simbosambo »

c1sc0 wrote: post #61
avidiax wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French Revolution is no longer possible. The surveillance state plus wealth mobility means the wealthy will be in New Zealand before anyone erects a guillotine, and the people that would foment a revolution are heavily surveilled and infiltrated.

Are you sure about that? Tech cuts both ways & asymmetric drone warfare has become cheaper than ever … how hard it is it to sink some yachts or down some jets?

[dead]

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#305

Post by demritocracy »

WalterBright wrote: post #249
demritocracy wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

looks like a lot of wealth was created out of thin air about 6 years ago https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL

A lot of money was printed, but that is not wealth creation.

if wealth is money in this context, and printing is creation in this context, what is the difference between printing money and creating wealth? the new money went somewhere. if i remember correctly it went indiscriminately to business owners, with no stipulations on how it was spent, and then blanket forgiven with no questions asked. to my mind that is wealth creation and the root cause of the inflation we've seen since (the printing not just the PPP)

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#306

Post by srean »

crossbody wrote: post #296
srean wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's too naive. Laws work differently once you have billions of dollars. They can and will be bent and politicians will be too happy to do that for you. It's win win for both. Ignoring this aspect of the way the world works is living in a fantasy world, no less fantastic than a communist utopia. Oh! I chose my word poorly. Streaming is very much "tangible" in the sense I had intended. "No regret transaction" is per…

How much bending is actually happening vs just hypotheticals thought? Elon Musk donated a lot and then suddenly Big Beautiful Bill hit Tesla very hard. Doesn't sound like he got a favor paid back. Also, not that we should emulate Russia (not at all) but since 2000s there any oligarch trying to do anything political goes to jail or "falls out of their window". So possible in principle to remove the influence (I don't…

Not just HFT, options market, futures market are all zero sum. They are massive.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#307

Post by saulapremium »

crossbody wrote: post #296
srean wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's too naive. Laws work differently once you have billions of dollars. They can and will be bent and politicians will be too happy to do that for you. It's win win for both. Ignoring this aspect of the way the world works is living in a fantasy world, no less fantastic than a communist utopia. Oh! I chose my word poorly. Streaming is very much "tangible" in the sense I had intended. "No regret transaction" is per…

How much bending is actually happening vs just hypotheticals thought? Elon Musk donated a lot and then suddenly Big Beautiful Bill hit Tesla very hard. Doesn't sound like he got a favor paid back. Also, not that we should emulate Russia (not at all) but since 2000s there any oligarch trying to do anything political goes to jail or "falls out of their window". So possible in principle to remove the influence (I don't…

Elon Musk donated a lot of money and among many other things, his companies avoided investigations. The fact that neither Trump or Putin have any loyalty doesn't negate the fact that money buys you tremendous power.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#308

Post by satvikpendem »

WalterBright wrote: post #261
intended wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The user in question, begins with assumptions on how wealth and markets work that do not match anything I know of in economics. At one point they say that in a market economy there is no theft. At another point they say that wealth concentration does not occur. To begin to explain how they are working, I would have to invest in understanding the specific ideological framework they are using. Then figure out how to tr…

> The user in question, begins with assumptions on how wealth and markets work that do not match anything I know of in economics. I'm not surprised. My dad taught free market economics as a professor in his later years. Students would come up to him shocked that there was a case for free markets. May I recommend any of Milton Friedman's books. Or "Capitalism" by Reisman. https://www.amazon.com/Capitalism-Treatise-Eco…

I broadly agree with you, but do you believe the US has a free market? With regulatory capture and other ways to influence politics to favor one corporation over another, I don't think it fully does.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#309

Post by tsoukase »

Stitch4223 wrote: post #8

> Perhaps the danger is not 2008, 1999, 1973 or even 1873, but 1789. 1789 was the year of the French Revolution [1]. The rest are years with financial crises. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

Oh, the good old reflex that is activated in panic situations but never realised. Then the revolution was from capitalists against kings. Now the former are already in power with their servants (CEOs) and there is no alternative. So no change, no revolution.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#310

Post by saulapremium »

WalterBright wrote: post #247
fragmede wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich man, PAC advertising

Political advertising has no effect on my vote. Does it affect yours? Consider that Hillary outspent Trump 2:1 in the 2016 election, and lost. Same story in 2024, Trump was way outspent by Harris. Harris lost. Advertising doesn't work if the message is bad.

Direct advertising is not the only factor you need to consider. Many powers had been doing political radicalization for years through many channels, including foreign sponsored ones.
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