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Nobody cracks open a programming book anymore

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Re: Nobody cracks open a programming book anymore

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a different impression, that the folks here are divided in this issue, with a half being AI maximalists saying it's a necessary evil while the other half condemning such practices, maybe not as much as to protect copyright per se, but because there are two different measures here. While teenagers get ridiculous fines for sharing MP3, big corp gets the free pass for stealing data on a industrial scale.

And another half being copyright abolitionists like me who don't care about AI at all but see copyright as essentially a societal fiction that even if it was useful in the past is now no longer, or rather, only useful to big corporations to throw their weight around like Disney who lobbied the government to implement their infamous Mickey Mouse laws with ridiculous copyright term limits.

I agree with you to an extent, but I think that when people profit from a work (e.g. by using it to train a proprietary AI that they charge people to use) they should share the profit with the author of the work.

So I think Anna's Aarchive is fine. OpenAI is not.

Re: Nobody cracks open a programming book anymore

#302
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Funnily enough, people on HN often do not consider this an issue, like at all... I didn't have a problem with it when it was Aaron Swartz, not sure why I should have a problem with it when others do it.

Aaron Swartz never did whatever it was he was going to do. He was caught and hounded to death before that. But he was working with scientific papers— the outputs of public institutions — and his likely goal was releasing them to the public . What proprietary AI companies have done in training LLMs on every book in existence is nothing like that.

A lot of what they have done is the reverse. They have used a lot of such publicly funded information (and a lot of other freely available information) to train LLMs that are proprietary.

Re: Nobody cracks open a programming book anymore

#303
It's not just AI.

I grew up with borrowed ZX Spectrum manuals that detailed the Z80 assembly language, (a clone of) a Red Book that came with the (clone of a) Apple II computer that had assembly listings, and fold-out circuit-board diagrams for the whole computer. I taught myself C++ from the manual that came with Borland Turbo C++ and the Waite Group C book. I laughed out loud at footnotes in the Camel book, which I read from the start through to where it becomes a reference. I read Sedgewick's Algorithms cover to cover for fun when I found it in a local library as a teenager. I borrowed the ancient "build a flight simulator" book from a friend in high school.

I've bought books by Kleppmann, Julia Evans, and Hillel Wayne's in-progress book on proofs. I owned the gang of four design patterns book (although I won't pretend -- like everyone else -- to have done more than skim a few patterns!)

And yet.

For many, many years now every time I've wondered into a bookstore, and meandered over to the fondly-remembered computer books section with a sense of nostalgia, I've just been deeply disappointed and sad. If you're lucky, you'll find one or two books that look worth reading, and the rest is just the product of some giant publishing machine whose sole purpose seems to be to fleece unsuspecting neophytes of their money by pushing on them hastily written books on whatever the current fad is. Often when you look at the publication date and compare it to the release date of the software, it's obvious you couldn't write a _good_ book that fast.

And they're all huge. The C Programming Language, Javascript: the good parts, and The Go Programming Language are just about the only three examples I know of where concision was considered a virtue. Most are just fluffy as hell, which is offensive to the kind of mind that wants to learn a programming language.

Add to that the observation in the article that paper books for programming languages are inherently weird.

So yeah, nobody cracks open a programming book anymore, but there are lots of compelling reasons beside AI, reasons that make you grateful if AI can save you from having to wade through an ocean of dreck.

I can imagine a heavily curated shelf of programming books, and it would be a thing of beauty, a collection of potent fireworks shot into the dark of the unknown. But, like, who would go to Barnes and Noble or whatever and actually see it, and actually buy something?

Re: Nobody cracks open a programming book anymore

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately even in the old days, a truly good programming book like you’re describing was depressingly rare. Younger me really enjoyed some of the game programming books by Andre Lamothe. Most “Learn Language X” books were terrible with over focus on syntax and very little thought into organization.

> Unfortunately even in the old days, a truly good programming book like you’re describing was depressingly rare. And when you got past the beginner stuff, non existent. I've randomly tried to improve my $LANGUAGE_I_ALREADY_SHIPPED_SOMETHING_IN knowledge across the years, but if you look at books there's a plateau, and it's not too high. With the internet, there are random posts here and there with pieces of info tha…

You’re better off learning foundational knowledge. Languages are notations, not intent. What has been useful for me are Computation theory, Algorithms, Concurrency, Distributed Systems, Operating Systems theory, Practical system administration, Computer Organization, Networking,…

I do get language books, but only as a reference. For anything more advance, I usually read the sources.

Re: Nobody cracks open a programming book anymore

#306
I very much miss OPAMP techincal books in Los Angeles, and later the Fry's technical books section. Barnes and Noble and my local library still carry some. There's just nothing that gives you that random access to the unknown unknowns like a bookshelf. Using an AI to give you suggestions can come close, but as they're now switching to ad placement pushing product instead of really pulling from a mega training pool it will become useless.

Re: Nobody cracks open a programming book anymore

#307
I’ve felt kinda sad that I haven’t read a programming book recently. I think part of the reason is there is higher ROI (and enjoyment) in playing around with LLMs/agents.

I expect it’ll swing back, though. At least I would expect to refocus on learning fundamentals, languages, etc. once the hype dies down.

I’ll be very sad if these books don’t exist when the dust settles. LLMs are great but they don’t come close to a well-written technical book.

Re: Nobody cracks open a programming book anymore

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > which have indexed all of the books and used pirated copies to do so > Funnily enough, people on HN often do not consider this an issue, like at all... That is far from true - opinion is quite divided, perhaps even close to 50/50. It sometimes seems that the opinion is skewed massively towards the positive because there are a lot more “look what I did with GenAI” stories because “yeah, I'm not doing that because……

>That is far from true - opinion is quite divided That might be true if you look further into it. I am a casual frontpage reader and the frontpage usually is plastered with AI stuff. Either new bullshit benchmarks, AI workflows, AI editor updates, AI company did something bad (again), or cool(?) projects people vibecoded. I also had arguments about AI used for art on here before and my personal experience usually is…

> That might be true if you look further into it.

You don't have to look much further into it. If you aren't making that much effort it is hardly anyone else's fault that you've got an inaccurate impression of how things are.

Re: Nobody cracks open a programming book anymore

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And another half being copyright abolitionists like me who don't care about AI at all but see copyright as essentially a societal fiction that even if it was useful in the past is now no longer, or rather, only useful to big corporations to throw their weight around like Disney who lobbied the government to implement their infamous Mickey Mouse laws with ridiculous copyright term limits.

I agree with you to an extent, but I think that when people profit from a work (e.g. by using it to train a proprietary AI that they charge people to use) they should share the profit with the author of the work. So I think Anna's Aarchive is fine. OpenAI is not.

That's why I believe in open weight or even open source AI models. If you're gonna train you might as well democratize access to everyone, not the faux "democratization" that OpenAI and Anthropic talk about where only they control access.

Re: Nobody cracks open a programming book anymore

#310

I'm the author of O'Reilly's "Learning Go". Here are the last 13 months of paperback book sales: - Mar 2026: 124 - Feb 2026: 140 - Jan 2026: 157 - Dec 2025: 306 - Nov 2025: 484 - Oct 2025: 218 - Sep 2025: 176 - Aug 2025: 136 - Jul 2025: 317 - Jun 2025: 230 - May 2025: 237 - Apr 2025: 165 - Mar 2025: 367 Sales are certainly down, but it has gone up and down in the past. Since the 1st edition came out in 2021, it has s…

>which have indexed all of the books and used pirated copies to do so Funnily enough, people on HN often do not consider this an issue, like at all... I wonder how they'd think about it if they had created something (meaningful) that was subjected to this. I love Go and learned it a lot in the past 2 years but ultimately put it down in favor of more "batteries included" solutions as I don't trust myself enough as a d…

I'd rather not have copyright at all, as I said in another comment it's not useful anymore. Information should instead just be free for everyone.
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