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AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

joshwcomeau.com

301–310 of 344 posts

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#301
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> students use AI as a personalized tutor but still do the assignments themselves. So your first study actually concludes the opposite. It concluded that all AI users performed worse, but the effect was smaller for students which used AI as a tutor. The second meta analysis I don‘t quite understand. I understand they conclude that using AI tutor shows significant improvement, but I don‘t understand the methodology. I…

I hadn't looked at that study you selected, but yeah the methodology conflicts with the abstract (Also it low-key seems to be an ad for "Flexi 2.0.") It does seems to be a shady paper, with a small N and in a journal of questionable repute. That said, there are 80+ other studies listed in the meta-study, which is pretty frank about its limitations. (Note the snippets about positive biases in the conclusion.) It is go…

This was the only study from the meta analysis that I read, and I picked it because it made the strongest claim out of all of them.

This is in the opening of the results section in the meta-analysis:

> In the final screening phase, a rigorous full-text analysis evaluated the methodological robustness and empirical validity of the remaining studies. [...] The final corpus comprised 88 studies that demonstrated robust empirical evidence for LLM applications in educational contexts.

The inclusion of the study I read does not give me confidence that this statement is true. And the fact that they reach their conclusion by simply tallying up the positive vs. negative studies makes me conclude that this meta-analysis is practically useless. They do admit this in the conclusion (which is probably why it passed peer review [assuming the peer reviewer didn’t read the same citation as me as I am 100% certain they would have asked for it to be excluded]). But that pretty much just leaves us with nothing. We are exactly where we started. No evidence that LLMs help students beyond traditional methods.

Now I am not gonna read that Anthropic study. It reminds me of Cigarette companies finding the health benefits of cigarettes. That leaves that excellent 3-study review. In their first study they found LLM has negative effects on students (in line with the first link you showed me). In the second study they found no effect. And in the third study they found mixed (nuanced) effect where using LLMs as tutor helped students in one aspect but had negative effects on others. This is by far the best study you have presented me but it still does not change my opinion. There is little evidence that LLMs (even when used as a tutor) help people learn better traditional methods.

What makes me even more against this sentiment is this quote from the conclusion of the 3-study review paper:

> Our results suggest that students prefer to use LLMs to substitute rather than complement learning activities.

So on their own, students are more likely to use LLMs in a way which is harmful to their learning. I would expect similar behavior of junior developers.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#302
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> using AI as a tutor, or even just for help with the hard assignments, produces slightly better learning outcomes Source? The few people I’ve seen try to do this wind up with a terrible understanding of the material, with large knowledge gaps and one or two fundamental fuckups. In every case, an introductory textbook would have been better. (It would also have been harder.)

For coding specifically (there are many studies out there by now, but I know of these offhand): https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/14/10/4115 -- probably the earliest one of its kind, finds over-reliance degrades critical skills but supplementary use is mostly harmless. https://arxiv.org/html/2601.20245v2 -- Anthropic's study, same as above except supplementary use (like clarifying concepts) can actually be beneficial. h…

I’ve noticed you are posting a lot of studies around, some of which have been peer reviewed and some not, some argue against your point, and some show mixed results.

Are you a researcher in the pedagogical sciences? Regardless, you have to admit that the original claim has very little evidence behind it despite being testable. And also the caveat you tag onto the end is a pretty massive caveat, and from the sources you provided it seems that students which use in the way which you claim has been shown to be effective, that those students are in a minority anyway.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen it happen. You say this and it's likely one anecdotal claim. At the same time there's counter points like Bun getting rewritten in rust. This is talk and talk is cheap. Prove it, otherwise it's still a million dollar question... unanswered. HN is notoriously mentally deficient when it comes to AI. They were wrong about self driving cars (I sit in AI cars daily), they were wrong about AI getting used f…

> They were wrong about self driving cars only in the bubble you live in > So I have to say unless there's something evidence based or substantial here it's likely given HN track record that most people here will end up being another wrong, baseless and over confident answer. Again only in the bubble you live in. You want evidence? There are zero killer app products out there. Not even one, the ones that seems impres…

>only in the bubble you live in

Oh you mean the USA bubble? sorry i didn't consider somalia or wherever backwater place you live.

>Again only in the bubble you live in. You want evidence? There are zero killer app products out there. Not even one, the ones that seems impressive like bun zig to rust, it's just an experiment and will see how bad it will unravel.

It's called claude code and bun and practically every company building a SAAS app. that's evidence.

>And the existing products? They get shittier day by day at rate not seen before.

That's your opinion. Obviously people who make more money than you and are smarter than you and are more powerful than you think otherwise.

>Or are u building one via codex inside the ai car while u eat a burrito?

When you insult someone like this. It's a sign that you got nothing substantial to say. It's a cowardly move and you're a coward. I'm not trying to insult you here. Just stating a fact plain and simple fact: You're a little coward. You're afraid to face reality.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#305
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not as senior as you think if you think reading code isn’t worth it. Do you think novelists just write novels from nothing? They read books. Software developers need to read software, too. When was the last time you read the code for the best open source software in your industry? I routinely read the libraries I use.

> You’re not as senior as you think Classy. > if you think reading code isn’t worth it. I didn't say that. With anything you learn, sure, you need to read it, but you haven't actually learned it until you try to do it. As millions of teenagers find out in high school, it is not possible to "learn" trigonometry or calculus by reading the problems; they actually have to drill problems to pass. > Do you think novelists…

You only said “You don't learn by reading” which I took literally what do you expect. I’m triggered by senior engineers who don’t read code, luckily you’re not one of them. Your original comment was terse as hell.

Also, “classy.” As a phrase is about as “classy” as my original comment, so i guess we’re both passive aggressive jerks

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#306
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the experience of interacting with AI is miserable. I like writing code. I'm your exact opposite. I've felt like code is 1960's punch card tech my entire career. I've always wanted to do more. So much of coding is plumbing. Or paying attention to tiny little details. Or hunting down stupid bugs. Or changing requirements and refactoring. That shit sucks. All of it. I've never had so much fun with software. I…

> So much of coding is plumbing. Or paying attention to tiny little details. Or hunting down stupid bugs. Or changing requirements and refactoring. That shit sucks. All of it. No offense, but this sounds like you just don't like anything about writing code and you don't have any LLM superpowers, because those are the technical skills that make you good at being a software engineer regardless of whether you're using a…

> Writing code to solve problems is fun. Prompting an AI to solve problems makes me want to eat a gun.

If this is how well you write prose, I would absolutely hate it if you stopped writing code.

Joke aside, I read your comment and wanted to yell “PREACH!” Pretty sure that’s the first time I felt like I had a use for that word.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#307
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really saddens me to see some developers talk about literally quitting their careers over AI, right when the benefits of existing deep technical experience have never been more valuable. 1. Because the experience of interacting with AI is miserable. I like writing code. I don't like finding the magic incantation that gets the machine to write the correct code. I don't like correcting the machine when it gets thi…

> Because the experience of interacting with AI is miserable. I like writing code. I'm your exact opposite. I've felt like code is 1960's punch card tech my entire career. I've always wanted to do more. So much of coding is plumbing. Or paying attention to tiny little details. Or hunting down stupid bugs. Or changing requirements and refactoring. That shit sucks. All of it. I've never had so much fun with software. I…

I mean, if you don’t like refactoring, which is my absolute favorite, it’s hard to believe you understand software engineering and software architecture.

Tedium absolutely exists in coding. And is usually a sign of bad interfaces and/or architecture.

For most of us it wasn’t really about getting the user to do X. It’s getting the user to do X at 1/10th of the price, 10x the speed, and the user is left absolutely amazed.

Magic is for the user to experience. Not for the user of the programming language.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#308
post #286

I also "had an Iron Man moment last week" as a mathematician. I've been doing joint math research with two friends (professors) on a project for several years. Last week, I decided to explore part of our research using chat GPT. 1) I would have a thought. 2) Present it to GPT. 3) Ask GPT to write theorems that were easy to prove and put those proofs into LaTeX. (I always have to check the proofs carefully.) 4) Then I…

So why are you using ChatGPT?

> This whole process worked about 10 times faster than doing it without GPT.

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were wrong about self driving cars only in the bubble you live in > So I have to say unless there's something evidence based or substantial here it's likely given HN track record that most people here will end up being another wrong, baseless and over confident answer. Again only in the bubble you live in. You want evidence? There are zero killer app products out there. Not even one, the ones that seems impres…

>only in the bubble you live in Oh you mean the USA bubble? sorry i didn't consider somalia or wherever backwater place you live. >Again only in the bubble you live in. You want evidence? There are zero killer app products out there. Not even one, the ones that seems impressive like bun zig to rust, it's just an experiment and will see how bad it will unravel. It's called claude code and bun and practically every com…

you're a fake troll

Re: AI has a multiplying effect on existing technical skills

#310
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really saddens me to see some developers talk about literally quitting their careers over AI, right when the benefits of existing deep technical experience have never been more valuable. 1. Because the experience of interacting with AI is miserable. I like writing code. I don't like finding the magic incantation that gets the machine to write the correct code. I don't like correcting the machine when it gets thi…

> Because the experience of interacting with AI is miserable. I like writing code. I'm your exact opposite. I've felt like code is 1960's punch card tech my entire career. I've always wanted to do more. So much of coding is plumbing. Or paying attention to tiny little details. Or hunting down stupid bugs. Or changing requirements and refactoring. That shit sucks. All of it. I've never had so much fun with software. I…

>Or paying attention to tiny little details

That's like, the entire point and the entire reason any of it works with any sense of reliability. Did they not do the "tell me how to make a sandwich" gag to show why thinking about the details matters? Ignoring them is how you end up with borderline unusable applications slower than they were with 10 fewer years of hardware development. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

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