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Getting arrested in Japan

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Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#301

Post by customguy »

commandersaki wrote: post #286
reddozen wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're getting downvoted to hell, but extraordinary claims deserves extraordinary evidence.

What claim are you talking about? The claim is that she was denied her rights.

What she did beforehand would only be relevant if it could somehow suspend those rights.

The argument for that being the case is that she doesn't say, therefore we can assume she did... something... that is sufficient to suspend her rights; without being able to name even an example.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#302

Post by bsimpson »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #154
bsimpson wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It surprises me how many people are responding to an article that includes: > You can not bring or keep anything including a bra or even your own underwear. presuming the author is male.

I assume a female wouldn't distinguish bra and underwear? I also don't know why it matters either way, whether the author is presumed male or female

I presumed a man wouldn't have been concerned with a foreign jail's rules for bras.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#304

Post by arcfour »

pas wrote: post #221
arcfour wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter though. Nobody should be treated like this, especially not before their guilt has been proven.

reasonable suspicion is a pretty well established concept. importing controlled substances would get an arrest warrant easily anywhere if law enforcement decides to pursue the case. the administive pretrial detention is also pretty common, especially nowadays with the ICE craze. nobody should be treated like this, agreed, but that doesn't mean that the process has no correlation to the level of guilt established and…

But ultimately the charges were dropped so that makes the first half of your message effectively a non sequitur.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#305

Post by Aurornis »

arcfour wrote: post #194
Aurornis wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't mean someone gets to go free until their court date. It depends on the crime, the flight risk, and the supporting evidence that police are able to collect. There are many examples of police letting suspects go due to lack of evidence and then later discovering they let the wrong person go. These stories generate a lot of outrage in cases where there's public interest or a news sto…

Okay, but maybe we can feed them actual food, let them shower daily, and give them bedding? Are you opposed to this?

Of course not. That has nothing to do with my comment.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#306

Post by Capricorn2481 »

saltwatercowboy wrote: post #265
bigiain wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US's justice system is certainly lacking in many, many ways, but wow, this is barbaric. I am lucky enough to have a lot of middle aged middle class white male privilege. I wonder how many minority people in the US have much worse opinions and life experience of the justice system than you're implying? I wonder how many people consider typical ICE arrests and detention to be at least as "barbaric" and "psycholog…

No one is disagreeing with you, but we're not talking about that just now.

We're not? Someone compared the two directly.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#307

Post by Aurornis »

idle_zealot wrote: post #213
Aurornis wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it really a crucial detail though? Literally the central trigger point of the story. > For the record, I have not watched any video or read anything else about this individual. Nor do I intend to. Then I can see why you're not interested in the details

> Literally the central trigger point of the story The fact that you and other insist on this really gets at the crux of this whole problem. There are two notable positions on criminality and punishment: yours, which is broadly that the justice system exists, at least in part, to deliver righteous punishment on the deserving, and the position of those appalled by the treatment here, which is that the purpose of the j…

That is not my position at all and it’s dishonest to project it upon my writings.

I said this is an important detail to the story because it’s literally the central trigger point. For as many details as she’s willing to share, include admissions that could theoretically impact legal proceedings, excluding the core charge from the story raises suspicions about the trustworthiness of the narrator.

To be clear I do not support the treatment as reported. However the omission of this one key detail is a calculated omission by the author, where we’re supposed to both believe it’s entirely normal and benign but at the same time it’s also something that must be withheld from this story?

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#308

Post by insane_dreamer »

kelnos wrote: post #169
metacritic12 wrote: post #14

Seems like it's not pleasant, and the author says in theory it could be as low of a bar as getting into a heated argument; but the author never discloses his actual charge, which I think is critical context. If he stabbed someone and got this treatment, it would be very different than if he had a loud but normal argument you might see in any big box store in the US. That he doesn't go on to protest why he got locked…

It doesn't matter what her charge was. Even (alleged/suspected) serial murderers and rapists should be treated humanely and not experience psychological torture. And also remember this treatment is at the point where they haven't been charged with anything, haven't been tried in court, and haven't been convicted. The US's justice system is certainly lacking in many, many ways, but wow, this is barbaric. And it's desi…

> The US's justice system is certainly lacking in many, many ways, but wow, this is barbaric.

Still not as bad as what we've seen ICE do, for (allegedly) overstaying your visa, no less: no due process, children being separated from their parents and whereabouts unknown, horrible warehouse-like conditions, denial of medical care, people dying in custody, etc. Have any Japanese citizens been shot dead by police? [0]

And that's before we even get to talking about the injustices of the "war on drugs"; are Japanese police shooting and killing young black males in the back?

Yeah, the article is horrific, but I think Japan still has a ways to go to fall as low as the US these days unless you're white with money.

I will say though that _in principle_ the US' justice system is much better because it's based on presumption of innocence, due process, rights, etc. Japan uses a so-called "inquisitorial" system, based on the French legal system, where the judge is also the investigator, with detention while the investigation moves forward.

It's just that the reality in the US is different, depending on your visa status, color of your skin, and income level.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_annual_...

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#309

Post by hulitu »

kelnos wrote: post #169
metacritic12 wrote: post #14

Seems like it's not pleasant, and the author says in theory it could be as low of a bar as getting into a heated argument; but the author never discloses his actual charge, which I think is critical context. If he stabbed someone and got this treatment, it would be very different than if he had a loud but normal argument you might see in any big box store in the US. That he doesn't go on to protest why he got locked…

It doesn't matter what her charge was. Even (alleged/suspected) serial murderers and rapists should be treated humanely and not experience psychological torture. And also remember this treatment is at the point where they haven't been charged with anything, haven't been tried in court, and haven't been convicted. The US's justice system is certainly lacking in many, many ways, but wow, this is barbaric. And it's desi…

> The US's justice system is certainly lacking in many, many ways, but wow, this is barbaric

Guantanamo, "secret" CIA "prisons" around the world.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#310

Post by walletdrainer »

commandersaki wrote: post #278
bradchris wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have a different view of “innocent until proven guilty” than most US citizens, which is fine, maybe you aren’t one, but that line of rhetoric is going to be anathema to most people on this website. Not that the US criminal system isn’t its own complete mess, but thank God for the concept of bail (going about your life outside of jail until trial or dismissal, within certain parameters) and right to see a…

According to her video it appears she was deemed a flight risk because she didn't respond to an email requesting information on the matter being investigated while she was overseas. She didn't have the information on hand or at the time or at all and instead of saying that she didn't respond to the email. When she returned from her trip they deemed her a flight risk. In the US if you're a flight risk you wouldn't get…

You wouldn’t be deemed a flight risk in the US on that basis. Returning to the country after receiving email notifying you about the investigation is obviously evidence against flight risk.
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