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Maladaptive Frugality

herbertlui.net

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Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#301

Post by eszed »

ubermonkey wrote: post #299
eszed wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the guy you're asking, and you didn't need to be rude, but the difference is a fun driving experience. It's perfectly OK not to value that, but it's a valid priority. I'm speaking here as an NA Miata owner. My car's waaay behind your Prius on the luxury scale: it's loud on the freeway, and rattles and bumps the whole time; there's no cruise control; the roof seals leak a bit if you don't close the windows / d…

>but the difference is a fun driving experience I'm not convinced there's a materially more-fun driving experience to be had by spending gobs more money. If you optimize for that instead of other aspects, then Prius money would get you a Miata with most of the same features and a sportier aspects. And you're still a long way from a six-figure car. That was the gist of my earliest point.

OK, thanks. I agree with you, then.

I think the gist of your point got missed by both me and the GP. It read like you didn't think / understand fun was any kind of a value at all. I mean, you did ask:

> What specific benefits does a "driver's car" have over a "regular" car, praytell?

You're dead right on about the Miata vs Prius comparison, though. If I wasn't, for all of its manifest inconveniences, unreasonably in love with my (at this point classic status) little car I'd "upgrade" to a newer Miata.

That said:

> a materially more-fun driving experience [isn't] to be had by spending gobs more money

Kinda isn't the case? I've driven a couple of $100k+ cars, and they were a fricking blast. Effortless power is intoxicating; you feel momentarily like a super-hero when you put the throttle down. I can only imagine that a proper racecar is another leap beyond that - albeit with a massive decrease in comfort.

The catch, however, is that you can't safely (or legally) drive high-performance cars anywhere near their limit in public, only on the track. So, 99% of the time 90% of the money you've spent is wasted. My Miata is 90% of the fun 100% of the time, at (mostly!) legal speeds, and if I want to actually push its / my limits I can do that on a cone course in an empty parking lot, no track required.

(Also, little kids smile and wave at me all the time, because it's cute, and hard-core gear-heads start conversations with me about it at petrol stations. That's all fun, too.)

I think I'm getting a lot more enjoyment per dollar or per mile than the $100k+ fools do.

Unless, of course, they're doing it for status signaling, which they mostly are. That's fair, I guess; I don't think my Miata ever got me laid, which (I'm told) their cars do. The rest of us just wish they'd be damn honest about it, that's all.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#302

Post by ubermonkey »

eszed wrote: post #301
ubermonkey wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but the difference is a fun driving experience I'm not convinced there's a materially more-fun driving experience to be had by spending gobs more money. If you optimize for that instead of other aspects, then Prius money would get you a Miata with most of the same features and a sportier aspects. And you're still a long way from a six-figure car. That was the gist of my earliest point.

OK, thanks. I agree with you, then. I think the gist of your point got missed by both me and the GP. It read like you didn't think / understand fun was any kind of a value at all. I mean, you did ask: > What specific benefits does a "driver's car" have over a "regular" car, praytell? You're dead right on about the Miata vs Prius comparison, though. If I wasn't, for all of its manifest inconveniences, unreasonably in…

Fair.

The thing is all 100k cars are well past the point of diminishing returns.

I use to have a 993. It was a lot of fun. I also had a 2016 GTI. It was at least 85% of the fun for 20% the cost. It didn’t turn heads as much, though, which is what most people buying high end cars are after.

These days I get my zoomies on two wheels. I have a Triumph, so I’m very familiar with the gas station chat-ups. ;)

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#303

Post by sokoloff »

jumpconc wrote: post #222
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*Cries in paid off 3.25% mortgage...

Minmaxxing your finances is maladaptive frugality. You have something even better than 1% extra interest in your account: you have no mortgage . You can do whatever the fuck you want to your house and your bank doesn't stick its nose in your business to ensure the value of the house stays up. You can do whatever the fuck you want with your career and you don't have to worry the bank will come and take your house back…

When does an existing mortgage lender get involved in a house remodel? (assuming you’re not trying to borrow more money for it)

I’ve owned houses for 30 years and no bank has gotten review of contemplated projects or anything other than appraisals during origination of a mortgage or refinance (which are entirely optional for me, of course).

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#304

Post by sokoloff »

satvikpendem wrote: post #296
SoftTalker wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced air is pretty necessary for air conditioning (cooling). For heat, radiant is nicer. But most people don't want to pay to have two completely separate climate control infrastructures in their house.

Heat pumps, they are one piece of infrastructure that work for both heating and cooling as it's a symmetric process.

But you still need to move air for cooling (as opposed to using water for heating), because you can’t cause condensation during cooling without creating damage and health risks.

Hydronic (water transport) heat is great: extremely comfortable and quiet compared to forced hot air.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#305

Post by sokoloff »

quickthrowman wrote: post #110
takinola wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the winter, I keep the thermostat at frigid temperatures when I am home alone and jack it up to warm just before any one else gets home. My thinking is that it is wasteful to warm up the entire house when it's just me since I can put on a sweater but I don't want to subject others to my, shall we say, quirks. I keep meaning to calculate how much I am actually saving by freezing my butt off. My guess is it'll work…

It probably costs more to do that than to maintain a constant temperature. When you turn the setpoint down, everything inside your house and also your house itself starts losing heat. When you turn the setpoint back up, the cooled off house and items inside of it will suck up most of the heat until the stuff is warm again, and then the air warms up. This is much more noticeable when you go into a freezing cold buildi…

Thermodynamically, the heat lost to the outside is roughly linear with the temperature delta between inside and outside.

All else equal, setbacks do reduce energy lost to the outside; whether that saves money depends somewhat on the recovery strategy of your equipment; whether it’s desirable depends on your individual preferences.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#306

Post by Mr_Minderbinder »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #221
bdangubic wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had mortage on a condo for $460k. total money paid to pay it off via debt, little over $1m. I sell 30 years later for $460k I just lost $550k :) (I didn’t, paid it off in 5 years saving myself 100’s of thousands …) ask yourself why “we” think that some debt (e.g. real estate) is great) while others (e.g. vehicle) is bad? it just might ge that one is looked at as appreciating asset while the other not so much. comme…

You aren't making a consistent or coherent argument. The math of e.g. interest rate arbitrage doesn't care whether you are buying a house or a car, you will profit the same regardless. In many cases the risk is literally zero , the scenarios you are imagining where it has bad consequences don't exist as a real thing that can happen. If you have enough money to pay cash then you also have enough money to pay off the e…

> In many cases the risk is literally zero...

I presume this is hyperbole and that what you mean is almost or very near zero.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#307

Post by yarekt »

cwillu wrote: post #81
yarekt wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus no, you could be dead or decrepit by 60. What’s wrong with finding happiness within your limits all the time?

“I hope it's obvious that this is a criticism.”

Honestly I struggled to get further than 2nd paragraph. Other commenters here also have similar spectrum of opinions, far down the "Enjoy later" mindset

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#308

Post by asdfasvea »

jimbokun wrote: post #239
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is that there are some things better experienced in younger years. I can't imagine backpacking across Europe is better in your 50's than it would be in your 20's, and if you're doing something with a chance of injury, you bounce back a lot faster the younger you are. But I really think you're underestimating how active even the average 70 year old retiree can be.

That just comes down to luck. Some people at 70 are in great health, some not so much.

Disagree. Like financial independence, physical fitness in later years is something you can work towards and is well within nearly everyone's reach.

Granted, both take focus and long term discipline which people who lack both chalk up to luck.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#309

Post by RickJWagner »

catlogbindiff wrote: post #136
RickJWagner wrote: post #112

Spending money sparingly is like reducing weight in an automobile. A car will get better gas mileage, go faster, break less often, and be more responsive with less weight. So it is with spending. When you spend less, you can retire earlier, your finances are more secure, you feel less pressure and stress, etc. You have more flexibility in the kinds of jobs you can take. Perhaps best of all, you end up accumulating le…

Retiring early is a single guy internet myth. If you have a family, forget it. If you have a health condition, forget it. If you don’t have low risk investments, forget it. In the US health care can reset your bank account in the blink of an eye which is why so many many people in tech work until Medicare kicks in. Early retirement with a family is at least 10 mil in cash. Better enjoy your job because you’ll be doin…

Health insurance before Medicare is definitely possible. The ACA ( Obamacare ) provides subsidies to those with low or medium income. That means if you spend from cash savings, healthcare can be affordable. ( But note that in doing so you are going to pay more taxes in the future, because you are foregoing Roth conversions, which show up as income and reduce the subsidies. )

Early retirement is absolutely attainable. To hear stories ( of questionable provenance), visit FIRE forums. I can personally attest to knowing people that have done it— married people with kids. It takes nowhere near the figure you’ve cited. Listen to retirement podcasts, you will hear from plenty of people that have done it.

To get real, actionable advice join the Bogleheads community. Good luck.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#310

Post by eszed »

ubermonkey wrote: post #302
eszed wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, thanks. I agree with you, then. I think the gist of your point got missed by both me and the GP. It read like you didn't think / understand fun was any kind of a value at all. I mean, you did ask: > What specific benefits does a "driver's car" have over a "regular" car, praytell? You're dead right on about the Miata vs Prius comparison, though. If I wasn't, for all of its manifest inconveniences, unreasonably in…

Fair. The thing is all 100k cars are well past the point of diminishing returns. I use to have a 993. It was a lot of fun. I also had a 2016 GTI. It was at least 85% of the fun for 20% the cost. It didn’t turn heads as much, though, which is what most people buying high end cars are after. These days I get my zoomies on two wheels. I have a Triumph, so I’m very familiar with the gas station chat-ups. ;)

Totally agree, and you have superb taste in vehicles. :-)
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