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The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

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Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

#301

Post by mna_ »

brobdingnagians wrote: post #195
50208 wrote: post #137

WW3 is shaping up to be a theocratic holy war struggle between Christianity, Judaism, Islam ... and all of us secular folks have to suffer for their ignorance and intolerance.

Strangely enough (or maybe to be expected), I'd say that at least on the Christian and Jewish sides, it's led by people who have no sincere belief in the respective religions, but hijack it for their personal power. Reminds me of Germany in WWII where Christian symbolism with "Positive Christianity" was used until it was no longer useful then they went full pagan (gottgläubig and other movements) because the sincere…

>on the Christian and Jewish sides, it's led by people who have no sincere belief in the respective religions, but hijack it for their personal power.

Have you read the Old Testament? It's full of war.

Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

#302

Post by frm88 »

vetrom wrote: post #300
frm88 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is a fabrication, why did the pope cancel his visit to the US or at least - as some news outlets put it - may not visit... - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

Papal visits to the United States have fairly long intervals to begin with. Wikipedia reports 10 trips between 1965 and 2015 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_visits_to_the_United_Sta... ). Given the relative rarity of visits, not having planned a trip during any given presidency would even be normal. It doesn't surprise me at all. That's still a good question, though. Do any of them have anything more substantia…

Your link to the tweet by Ferraresi reads:

Very good piece essentially confirming my reporting for @TheFP, in which — I should emphasize — I did not mention any actual military threat to the Vatican and simply reported a tense meeting that included, in passing, an unsavory mention of the Avignon Papacy.

Setting aside only the military intervention bit, which my original link didn't have in the first place, but confirms the Avignon statement and the 'terse' nature of the dialogue. Together with the cancellation I can infer some high tension going on. Your second link basically repeats what all the official statements published, reframing events in politically appropriate speech.

We will see. The cancellation is official though, the visit to Lampedusa on July 4th instead of the US has been confirmed.

Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

#303

Post by blooalien »

rebolek wrote: post #257
queenkjuul wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has been in an ongoing conflict with Cuba since 1959. Trust me, American insanity know absolutely no bounds, the rest of the world needs to wake up and do something about it

I still prefer American insanity to Russia or China flavours.

I would prefer that we stop putting the criminally insane in charge of WMDs, armies, and entire nations.

Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

#304

Post by scruple »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #151
_doctor_love wrote: post #109

Wow. I knew the current administration was bad but this is something extra. It also shows the short-sightedness of the "scholars" in the administration. Sure, the Avignon Papacy did occur, that's historical fact. It's also a historical fact that the Catholic Church is an actually ancient power broker in the world still and they have been around for much, much longer than the United States. The Church is actually quit…

> Also...I don't think a fast-follow conflict in Cuba right after this Iran affair is going to do much good, but that seems like where their appetite is going next. I was watching a video by Man carrying thing about Iran war, (he makes skit about things which are still good) and he mentioned the Cuba thing. I am being 100% serious right now, I thought that it was just a joke of the skit. Are we actually being serious…

Yes. This administration is on a blitz ahead of the midterms. Rubio has his eyes on Cuba and he's positioned himself next to Trump. It is happening.

Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

#305

Post by nojvek »

9dev wrote: post #260
ourmandave wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one of us is anyway. Sadly, he's sitting in the top office.

77 Million of you, who voted him into office, are. A lot more are silent enablers. Don’t think the rest of the world is going to forget about your role in what is happening right now.

That’s the messiness. 77 million voted for a slightly worse life. Higher food and gas prices. Less jobs. Higher rents.

All in the name of “immigrants are root cause problems”

The average person really has one choice “red” or “blue” and there isn’t much reason other than my group votes a certain way so I vote that way.

Trump came to power because he tapped into people’s anger.

I don’t see a world where this gets better. Social media and news propagates fear and hatred like wildfire. Algos massively boost up anything that improves engagement. Engagement improves adclicks.

So we may actually end up destroying the empire for a bunch of adclicks.

Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

#306

Post by tpm »

rebolek wrote: post #257
queenkjuul wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has been in an ongoing conflict with Cuba since 1959. Trust me, American insanity know absolutely no bounds, the rest of the world needs to wake up and do something about it

I still prefer American insanity to Russia or China flavours.

It's getting comparable to Russia since the Citrus Caligula took over.

China behaves quite responsibly outside of their borders (which are a bit fluid with regards to Taiwan and the seas, but still).

Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

#307

Post by paduc »

rawgabbit wrote: post #213
sqircles wrote: post #20

I have recently deepened my search in Christianity which started with the Catholic Church, one of few points I struggle with when it comes to Catholicism is the papacy, and the Avignon Papacy debacle and the events that followed (a la Western Schism) has quite a bit to do with that. I was a little confused by what they meant here by “threatening with the Avignon Papacy.” If anyone else is curious, I think the phrase…

As a Catholic, I understood the reference to Avignon Papacy to mean the US will create a separate papacy, distinct from Leo and under the control of Trump.

I think that you are correct. I was looking for this in the comments.

At that period in history, the French kingdom (catholic) was at war with the Spanish kingdom (also catholic) and Italian kingdoms/duchies. A pope had immense political power because of the fervor of the people. If the pope excommunicated a king, he would lose a lot of power in his kingdom and all catholic countries would have a good reason to declare war. Hence, the strategical relocation of "a" pope in the city of Avignon, under French "protection".

I believe the threat is to "protect" a new pope in the US. Whether catholic (maybe other christian denominations) Americans would support it...

Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

#308

Post by red-iron-pine »

_doctor_love wrote: post #185
reactordev wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI, Politics, Social Media, and indifference have all played their part. It’s not just the administration. The administration just knows how to manipulate those things.

I would reluctantly have to agree. The current administration is the culmination of something like 30 years of effort.

Big business interests have been pushing for this since the 1970s; a proto Tea Party, which morphed into the Fox News and actual Tea Party

Putin has been working on this since he came to power, ~30 some years

Israel has been trying to make the US do its dirty work since the first oil crisis in the 70s too / Yom Kippur War.

Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

#309

Post by red-iron-pine »

flohofwoe wrote: post #29
Avicebron wrote: post #3

Idk which is more impressive that someone referenced the Avignon Papacy in a heat of the moment argument or that the same person who could reference that thought it was a good idea. (Not Catholic...but like...why?)

Sounds like a Europa Universalis player tbh ;)

timing means crusader kings

Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

#310

Post by red-iron-pine »

rawgabbit wrote: post #201
drumhead wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun Fact - Elbridge Colby is a Catholic, maybe time for excommunication?

There are Catholics who argue that Francis and Leo are not real Catholics and will argue Trump is the chosen one. Some are my family members. I am as always speechless.

rubes gonna rube.

what's the robert frost quote, something like "if you could reason with religious people we wouldn't have religious people"

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