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Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon [video]

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Re: Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon [video]

#301

Post by kurthr »

nasretdinov wrote: post #9

I like how most people's reactions at this point are "yeah, whatever", as if it's every day that humans observe the far side of the moon with a naked eye through a window :). We do know what it looks like and we have photos from the surface, yes, but seeing the reaction from real people who're actually there does hit different, at least for me

Actually, at this moment, the top 3 parent posts are all about how people aren't responding positively enough to this event. I think it's really cool, and more people would be more exited, if there wasn't so much else going on. To be fair, I already had the conversation this weekend that the late 60s-70s were also quite fraught.

Maybe we really have just been jaded by hours of youtube and tiktok shorts? I watched it on a 9" B/W crt and I was amazed! Of course I hadn't seen 2001, StarWars, Contact, or The Expanse.

Re: Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon [video]

#302

Post by skeeter2020 »

al_borland wrote: post #65
GolfPopper wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking for myself (who has been fascinated with the space program since I was a small child), any joy I might feel around Artemis II feels tainted, by the immense amount of pork involved (SLS is called "Senate Launch System" for good reason) to the point where Artemis is more corporate welfare that happens to involve the Moon than a real space program, and by my belief that it is intended to be little more than a q…

I ran across this video[0] yesterday with Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about how it’s always been political. The first moon landing was more about global politics than science. As a child you likely weren’t concerned about that side of it, or were shielded from it. It isn’t always the purist motivations that push the human race forward, but forward it moves us. [0] https://youtu.be/j_AlXChA9F4

this is why I mark the divide between the manned and unmanned space program. Historically the unmanned accomplishments have been less political (at least IMO) and made far larger advances. I don't need a human to take a photo of the dark side of the moon and then email it to me if a satellite can do it (with 1980's tech)

Re: Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon [video]

#303

Post by Avicebron »

YZF wrote: post #293
Avicebron wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often do you find yourself wondering how you'll be able to pay rent and your car payment during the month? What happens if you need to get dental work? Does that shift your calculus for expenses day to day? Not it in 2021 or whatever, but like this past week?

I've had a long career in tech and so for me and I assume people like me these are not concerns. I'm not doubting what you describe is the experience for many people. I'm not American but I work with many Americans who are doing really well (also long careers in tech). I'm old and I own my house but when I was younger I never leased a car, I always bought used cars that I could afford. So the question of making a car…

tl;dr depending on old you are the bootstraps >> "when I was younger I never leased a car, I always bought used cars that I could afford. So the question of making a car payment wasn't there. I always saved and compared prices in good times and bad times. I rented a cheap enough place to have enough safety margin."

were still there. They've been notably missing/further and further out of reach depending on where you started these past 15 years. I would argue actually closer to 20.

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1970/demo/p60-72... https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/nrs/tables/time-ser... https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/housing-trends-visua... https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charted-american-income-vs-... https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe... https://www.cms.gov/data-research/statistics-trends-and-repo... https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-is-spent-on-personal-... https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/life-expectancy-vs-healt... https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college-by-year https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-debt-by-year https://www.ascd.org/el/articles/is-the-stem-job-shortage-ov... https://issues.org/what-shortages-the-real-evidence-about-th... https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2015/article/stem-crisis-or-ste... https://www.whatjobs.com/news/shocking-entry-level-job-exper... https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb20198/s-e-labor-market-conditi... https://issues.org/stem-workforce-shortage-data-hira/ https://listwithclever.com/research/home-price-v-income-hist...

Re: Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon [video]

#304

Post by YZF »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #294
YZF wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really less "fat on the bone" though? What metric are you tracking for that and what are the historical norms? "forcing them to live on a shorter and shorter term outlook" -> social media? Rather than assigning blame I think it's fair to ask the people here to behave. Maybe it's not their fault they spend their day doom scrolling and have the attention span of a cat but they do have agency to change that. [E…

>> Rather than assigning blame I think it's fair to ask the people here to behave First, are you not doing just that - blaming the people here for making you unhappy? Second, you're welcome to demand this, but they/we are just as welcome to tell you to piss off.

As I was typing my reply I did pause to think about whether I am being part of the problem. I still decided to reply. My excuse is that I'm not the one who brought politics into this and I feel ok pushing back against that once others do.

> First, are you not doing just that - blaming the people here for making you unhappy?

I don't think so?

> Second, you're welcome to demand this, but they/we are just as welcome to tell you to piss off.

If the majority of people around here just want to argue politics non-stop and turn everything into that there's little I can do.

Re: Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon [video]

#305

Post by BurningFrog »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #267
BurningFrog wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very excited about the later steps of the Artemis project! Landing on the Moon South Pole and start setting up the lunar station there will be a huge step, especially after 50 years of nothing!! But this flight has already been done without a crew. Doing it with a human crew is important, but it achieves nothing new and exciting.

> it achieves nothing new and exciting I thought this but have since changed my mind. On board, real humans tax life-support systems in a way that’s difficult to simulate. And real human astronauts garble processes and communications with ground control in ways that a nation that hasn’t done deep spaceflight in a generation could probably do with practice on.

I half agree. It is new and important.

But it's hard, at least for me personally, to get really excited about it...

Re: Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon [video]

#306

Post by moogly »

foxglacier wrote: post #181
xoac wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can either hold ourselves back an an endless and futile journey on solving the human condition of poverty and inequality, or we can explore the stars. It's an easy choice. Wait... Are you suggesting that "exploring the stars" is less of an endless and futile journey than dealing with poverty and inequality?

Solving poverty and inequality is for the short term - they'll come back and need solving again no matter how many times you already solved them. But once the stars are explored, they stay explored forever. So yea, that's moving forwards and the other isn't.

> they'll come back and need solving again

So like "whitey going to the moon" again on Artemis II?

Re: Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon [video]

#308

Post by [deleted] »

YZF wrote: post #293
Avicebron wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often do you find yourself wondering how you'll be able to pay rent and your car payment during the month? What happens if you need to get dental work? Does that shift your calculus for expenses day to day? Not it in 2021 or whatever, but like this past week?

I've had a long career in tech and so for me and I assume people like me these are not concerns. I'm not doubting what you describe is the experience for many people. I'm not American but I work with many Americans who are doing really well (also long careers in tech). I'm old and I own my house but when I was younger I never leased a car, I always bought used cars that I could afford. So the question of making a car…

[deleted]

Re: Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon [video]

#309

Post by fortran77 »

thegrim33 wrote: post #172

It's pretty depressing that on a corner of the internet that's supposed to be a gathering of tech/geeks/nerds/stem people, discussing topics that "good hackers would find interesting", it's seemingly impossible to have a single thread about something like this that isn't almost entirely negative or political bickering.

[flagged]

Re: Artemis II crew see first glimpse of far side of Moon [video]

#310

Post by bluegatty »

westmeal wrote: post #236
bluegatty wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

95% of us used to labour as serfs on farms. 4.5% were technical trades. 0.5% noble class, 0.01% high elite. The industrial revolution moved almost 95% of people away from direct agrarian labour. We'll find ways. It won't be pretty in some cases, but we'll figure it out.

I hope you're right but I think it won't be pretty in all cases. It's easy to forget the industrial revolution wasn't entirely positive for common people or for that matter the environment.

That's upside down. The industrial revolution was more beneficial for 'common people' than it was for anyone else.

The 'industrial revolution' upended the ancien regime of basically feudal order.

For the fist time, it created actual 'surplus' in the economy, and that surplus went into all sorts of things: education, leisure, the arts, medicine, travel.

The very concept of 'working people' taking a vacation - very modern idea.

Then that broke through into basic real emancipation, universal suffrage.

Then medicine, healthcare, social services etc.

All of that only happens because of elevated productivity that's not captured by a passive elite.

The game is different now for sure, but there's almost no argument that can be made for 'less surplus'.

It's almost like saying 'what if energy were free, that would be bad'. No - it would mostly be good.

Well figure it out

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