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Tailscale's new macOS home

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Re: Tailscale's new macOS home

#301

Post by deathanatos »

bayindirh wrote: post #235
sysworld wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also abused by soo many devs, just wanting there app to be seen 24/7 by the users, regardless if there app gains anything from being in the menu bar. That's why many users run out of space. Most people don't look at settings or ways to remove them (if they even give an option), so they quickly fill up the menu bar. Back in the day without a notch, people would have so many that some menu items would disappear to…

A couple of my colleagues have so many applications running at the menu bar, so they have to use Bartender to be able to have anything resembling a functional menu bar. I understand power users, but I don't understand these users.

… on my MBP, if we discount the icons that ship with macOS, the limit is 4 items. Past that, they're hidden by the notch.

I don't get why an overflow arrow once the limit is reached is so hard here.

Or letting users decide what the order of items in the bar should be.

Re: Tailscale's new macOS home

#302

Post by m-s-y »

deathanatos wrote: post #301
bayindirh wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of my colleagues have so many applications running at the menu bar, so they have to use Bartender to be able to have anything resembling a functional menu bar. I understand power users, but I don't understand these users.

… on my MBP, if we discount the icons that ship with macOS, the limit is 4 items. Past that, they're hidden by the notch. I don't get why an overflow arrow once the limit is reached is so hard here. Or letting users decide what the order of items in the bar should be.

command-click-and-drag them to where you want 'em. don't need bartender for this

Re: Tailscale's new macOS home

#303

Post by sunaookami »

kiviuq wrote: post #273

“We don’t have any control over where things get rendered in the menu bar,” said one Tailscale engineer, who asked to go nameless so as to share their honest opinion. “You just say, ‘I want to be a menu bar app.’ They shove it up there, and that’s it, you end up where you end up.” > said one Tailscale engineer, who asked to go nameless Fear in a free society? There’s no contradiction here. A free society doesn't crea…

It's a joke...

Re: Tailscale's new macOS home

#304

Post by xnyan »

veidr wrote: post #270
bredren wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an unknown issue at the fruit co. Can anyone speculate on any rational if not good reasons for not solving this problem yet?

Well I mean, recently because they have no idea how to make good UIs, and have not read their own enormously detailed (and excellent) Human Interface Guidelines tomes from 10, 20, and probably 30 years go, and have basically regressed to barbarism. But before that relatively recent fall-off-a-cliff event (whatever it was that caused it, most of us will never know), it was pretty clear that they didn't want to implici…

> they didn't want to implicitly endorse the lazy/anti-user/Windows-equivalent-UX antipattern of having apps that intentionally made themselves accessible only from a menu bar icon.

The single biggest complaint I had when I switched it to Mac was lack of this feature. Still miss it. .

Re: Tailscale's new macOS home

#305

Post by xnyan »

oaweoifjwpo wrote: post #64
sosborn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBF - It still does "just work," The fact that it doesn't completely fit into your (and my) preferences doesn't really change that, and if that's the standard, then everything will fall short of it.

If the icons are just hidden and you can't find them in order to use the programs you have running, that's not "just working". That's broken functionality. Windows has solved this with the overflow menu for literally decades.

> Windows has solved this with the overflow menu for literally decades.

I was a huge Windows fanboy, now completely Apple but this was single most annoying regression of functionality when switching and one of the only things I miss.

Re: Tailscale's new macOS home

#306

Post by xnyan »

tshaddox wrote: post #190
paxys wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tailscale will enable all of this. Set up a US device as an exit node, and configure other devices to proxy through it.

For $5 a month you can also get a Mullvad VPN exit node. It’s billed directly through Tailscale which makes it painless. When I’m outside the U.S. I get much better speeds through the Mullvad exit node than through my (U.S.) home exit node. I’m not sure why, since my home internet is gigabit fiber and I confirmed that I had a direct connection (no DERP relay).

Where's the Mullvad exit node located? It may just be geographically closer to your travel location than your home is. Even if it's about the same distance geographically, the routing path is different and traffic to whatever datacenter is running the mulvad node can be routed to more efficiently than your residential ip.

poking around with MTR (traceroute and ping combined) using various exit nodes and destinations would give you some more information if you're interested.

Re: Tailscale's new macOS home

#307

Post by osicjwjxiwu »

VerifiedReports wrote: post #291
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason things are this way is that in Apple’s view, third party devs are effectively misusing menu items. Originally it wasn’t even possible for third parties to add new menu extras using public APIs. That was something reserved for Apple. Third party devs had to use a tool called MenuCracker. When Apple finally added the API used now, the intention for it was for full fat GUI programs to provide ephemeral menu i…

That's not really defensible as an excuse, especially considering Apple's grooming of users to believe that they never need to quit applications. All Apple had to do was add a "more" indicator at the end of the area, at the very least. Or... to give all applications' entries equal footing, collapse them all into a disclosure control once there are too many to show. But no... once again, a simple and fair solution elu…

If the “simple and fair solution” makes it so lazy developers lose money over putting things in the menu bar where they most definitely should not be putting anything, then so be it.

Stop putting things in the menu bar. End of.

Re: Tailscale's new macOS home

#308

Post by osicjwjxiwu »

abustamam wrote: post #300
VerifiedReports wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pissing and moaning about "bezels" is cacophonous in certain echo chambers. It's sad to see Apple taking cues from a minority group of infantile users, but that's one way we got here.

I mean, I don't love large bezels, but I dislike less screen real estate even more. Are the bezel nerds happy with where are now?? My android phone (OnePlus 11) has a hole punch front camera so I don't lose too much screen real estate. It's annoying sometimes but I prefer it to my mom's iPhone's giant notch.

The hole punch design absolutely horrendous. It makes everything uneven visually speaking and it just looks like - screen defect. The notch is fine, not perfect, but fine, and leagues above that stupidity of the hole punch.

Re: Tailscale's new macOS home

#309

Post by cosmic_cheese »

osicjwjxiwu wrote: post #307
VerifiedReports wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really defensible as an excuse, especially considering Apple's grooming of users to believe that they never need to quit applications. All Apple had to do was add a "more" indicator at the end of the area, at the very least. Or... to give all applications' entries equal footing, collapse them all into a disclosure control once there are too many to show. But no... once again, a simple and fair solution elu…

If the “simple and fair solution” makes it so lazy developers lose money over putting things in the menu bar where they most definitely should not be putting anything, then so be it. Stop putting things in the menu bar. End of.

Yes, the number of apps that actually deserve space up there is rather small. The last thing Apple should do is enable a Windows tray style free for all.

Re: Tailscale's new macOS home

#310

Post by abustamam »

osicjwjxiwu wrote: post #308
abustamam wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I don't love large bezels, but I dislike less screen real estate even more. Are the bezel nerds happy with where are now?? My android phone (OnePlus 11) has a hole punch front camera so I don't lose too much screen real estate. It's annoying sometimes but I prefer it to my mom's iPhone's giant notch.

The hole punch design absolutely horrendous. It makes everything uneven visually speaking and it just looks like - screen defect. The notch is fine, not perfect, but fine, and leagues above that stupidity of the hole punch.

Well I guess Apple and Android both found their target markets in both of us!
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