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The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

fightchatcontrol.eu

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Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#301

Post by yeahforsureman »

narmiouh wrote: post #60
triska wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting from the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union , https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:12... : "Article 7 Respect for private and family life Everyone has the right to respect for his or her private and family life, home and communications. Article 8 Protection of personal data 1. Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her. 2. Such data mu…

It clearly states here in 2 “consent of the person concerned OR some other legitimate basis laid down the law”, any random law will trump personal consent

No, not any random law. To the extent the relevant law-making is within EU's competence (ie excluding certain areas like national security and similar), the general framework for rules on the processing of personal data has been laid down by the GDPR (and for law enforcement related stuff, a similar Directive[1]), in particular, considerably restricting, limiting and in part downright precluding national law-making within that legislative and policy area, including eg the legal bases available for in-scope processing activities (Art 6 GDPR, also Art 9 for certain sensitive data categories).

Anyway, as far as human/fundamental rights go, the encryption and related issues in Chat Control tend to fall more on the Article 7 side of the Charter[2] like many similar questions related to different forms of (mass) surveillance, secrecy / confidentiality of (electronic) communications, including related national regimes with often diverse jurisdiction-specific histories, etc.

[1] The main difference between a Directive and a Regulation under EU law is that a Directive requires implementation on the national level to work properly (ie national legislation, usually with some room for discretion and details here and there), while a Regulation is directly binding and effective law in member states wholly in itself.

[2] And similar/corresponding language in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), including the related case law of the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR). While these are not EU institutions, European human rights law is recognized and applied as constitutional / fundamental rights-level law both by the EU and member state courts.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#302

Post by hermanzegerman »

Alles wrote: post #292
hermanzegerman wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Conservatives" feel no shame. But they are first-class in acting like a victim It's the same thing as with your republicans.

Italy, the biggest country opposing this, is composed of mainly "conservative" MEPs from FDI. I think you have a very narrow world view.

FDI is not in EPP

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#303

Post by hermanzegerman »

verisimi wrote: post #273
3836293648 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This in standard in europe. Most places don't vote for their PM or President either, they're just the leader of the largest party in parliament and chosen by parliament

Oh, if unelected officials is the standard, that's fine then. Move along.

[flagged]

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#305

Post by autuni »

pyuser583 wrote: post #265
Anonasty wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what? https://rsf.org/en/index https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/freedom-of-expression-ind... I would be more worried about police and wannabe police shooting people on the streets, detaining citizens without due process, sending billions to war in Iran while regular people are struggling with day-to-day life. Your universities and primary schools are restricted what they can teach or say either by governme…

I was reading an essay by Kant called “what is Enlightenment?” It argues that people should be permitted to say whatever they wanted, provided they obey the laws. He bases it on the idea that we should not be subject to be “lifelong tuteledge.” At some point we must speak up and contribute. We can be wrong. Very wrong. We can advise our rulers to do terrible things. The Holocaust hadn’t happened yet, but the Wars of…

this seems like a very delusional take to me

> It argues that people should be permitted to say whatever they wanted, provided they obey the laws. that's exactly how it works

> Most recently the EU is considering a “ban conversion therapy.”

this has nothing to do with the opinions that are expressed in conversion therapy but with the insane practices - which actually try to enforce people to think like they believe is the "right" way to think about the world, which is far more restrictive than just letting people be themselves

> Really Europe (and other places) are using it as a way to weaken freedom of speech.

this is unfortunately true, too many extreme right wing politicians have been successful recently

> It’s a bit scary the Europe is leading the way on this.

it isn't, the US (though not just the US of course) famously collects data and searches through all of it if they need, and recently ICE had a hand full of incidents where they clearly used databases to profile people (just look at their use of AI cameras at protests)

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#306

Post by qwytw »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #199
x775 wrote: post #66

I am the creator of Fight Chat Control. Thank you for sharing. It is unfortunately, once again, needed. The recent events have been rather dumbfounding. On March 11, the Parliament surprisingly voted to replace blanket mass surveillance with targeted monitoring of suspects following judicial involvement [0]. As Council refused to compromise, the trilogue negotiations were set to fail, thus allowing the Commission's c…

I am always curious when I see these kinds of movement. It seems abundantly clear that the options on any vote in any legislature for a proposed bill are always “yes” and “ask me later”. So when I see things like Fight Chat Control, it feels like the call is “we must tell our legislators to press the ask later button!” Why? Why has your approach not been toward passing active legislation that protects these rights go…

> toward passing active legislation that protects these rights going forward?

That's not something the "legislators" in the EU parliament can do. It's effectively a consultative body which can either approve or send back the legislation provided to them so the council and commision can find sufficient workarounds...

What would actually help is if a government of a country where this type of Stasi/KGB style surveillance is constitutionally illegal like Germany to speak out and tell the EU (and Denmark which keeps pushing this) that they can go fuck themselves and that they will prosecute any company which is trying to comply with these regulations. (which would be perfectly legal since constitution/basic laws still supersede any type of EU treaty obligations in most countries.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#307

Post by alt227 »

hermanzegerman wrote: post #208
Aerroon wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>let's vote on this proposal >rejected >let's vote on it again! Is it still a democracy if you just keep redoing the vote until you get the outcome you want? The politicians involved in this should be ashamed of themselves.

"Conservatives" feel no shame. But they are first-class in acting like a victim It's the same thing as with your republicans.

Im no conservative, but I thought useres of this site were more intelligent than to throw massive negative stereotypes out about groups of millions of people.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#308

Post by pietmichal »

subscribed wrote: post #134
warkdarrior wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean "surveillance" by the word "invigilation" here?

Could be a wordplay due to the fact "invigilation" can be translated to and from the Polish word with a _very_ heavy and long connotations to the USSR state surveillance, oppression and abuse. Surveillance would be a more "modern" (even if more natural or seemingly correct word), without this sort of the implied baggage.

It's not a wordplay. Poles usually make a mistake because "invigilation" sounds english enough to them and just assume it is an english word.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#309

Post by Squarex »

moezd wrote: post #253

That's the problem with electing too many people with law background to a parliament: They think it's a Model United Nations session and if they can get things their way despite many real world consequences, they celebrate with joy as our governance becomes literally ungovernable.

I think that’s a real problem now. In our parliament (Czech) almost every politician is a lawyer or a doctor. Almost no other profession is represented.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#310

Post by qwytw »

3836293648 wrote: post #266
weakened_malloc wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but it's a step removed. The MEPs are directly voted in whilst the EC are not, they're "voted in" on account of "voted in" people assigning them to the EC. I mean nobody argues that the FED governor is voted in, right? In reality a lot of people argue that they're unelected and yet making decisions that affect everyone.

This in standard in europe. Most places don't vote for their PM or President either, they're just the leader of the largest party in parliament and chosen by parliament

Generally a lot of people do vote for the PM i.e. chose the party to vote for based on it's leader(s)
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