You are not your job • Hacker News Board

Re: You are not your job

#301

Post by meta_gunslinger » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 1:28 PM UTC

stalfie wrote: post #294

sph wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we value about ourselves are generally not that valuable to others. I love my own personality and humanity, my soul if you will, but nobody's paying me for it, and so I have to value it accordingly. A good example of what tribes did better vs civilization: if you can do anything to help the tribe survive (I am a good hunter, you can create good bows), you are a pr…

This is incredibly naive. Hunter gatherer communities, especially those in regions without an abundance of food, are and were extremely selective about who were accepted and who weren't. This starts from infancy where non-desirable babies were simply killed. Estimates vary greatly but perhaps around a third to half of "modern" hunter gatherer tribes practice infanticide. The stated reasoning behind infanticides is of…

Don't wake him up from his "Noble Savage" fever-dream.

Re: You are not your job

#302

Post by t43562 » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 1:28 PM UTC

Culture matters and going against yours is difficult. I think everyone tends to be unable to put themselves in the shoes of someone from another country - it is terribly tempting to use one's own "lense" to see everything.

In America there's pressure to "be a success" and it's not easy to get away from. If you're successful it's a virtue and if you're a "loser" it's because you're lazy or something bad. Bums sleeping on the street don't deserve a place to live even in the richest country in the world because losers need to be punished and winners should not be taxed unfairly.

Where I'm from in Zimbabwe, foreigners including my parents always misunderstood the importance of age - the need to show respect to older people no matter what you think of their utterances. Every 2 seconds I could see other immigrants like myself rubbing Shona people up the wrong way by not understanding where the power lay and what people were proud of.

When I was in Turkey with my wife I realised it was another place where older people held a huge amount of power and the whole country operated differently from Britain - where one only has to be able to get a mortgage to be independent and tell one's parents to go to hell. In Turkey you have to kowtow to your parents and uncles and aunts because you're probably living in a flat that one of them owns until you're quite late in life.

It's not that "success" doesn't matter everywhere but that there are multiple priorities and it's not a pure indication of status. Quite often it's about family or not being of "the other" tribe.

As for thinking you're defined by your job, that is just part of the "pigeon-holing" process by which people try to understand you quickly and sometimes attempt to neutralise a perceived competitor socially. I don't think there's much you can do other than not buy into it yourself and not practise it yourself.

Re: You are not your job

#303

Post by order-matters » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 1:29 PM UTC

stalfie wrote: post #294

sph wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we value about ourselves are generally not that valuable to others. I love my own personality and humanity, my soul if you will, but nobody's paying me for it, and so I have to value it accordingly. A good example of what tribes did better vs civilization: if you can do anything to help the tribe survive (I am a good hunter, you can create good bows), you are a pr…

This is incredibly naive. Hunter gatherer communities, especially those in regions without an abundance of food, are and were extremely selective about who were accepted and who weren't. This starts from infancy where non-desirable babies were simply killed. Estimates vary greatly but perhaps around a third to half of "modern" hunter gatherer tribes practice infanticide. The stated reasoning behind infanticides is of…

>when you look at any group of individuals in a tribe, survivorship bias will dictate that it all looks nice and rosy

there is a lot of conjecture in your overall post, but I think this is a fair takeaway you put at the end.

Re: You are not your job

#304

Post by atoav » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 1:35 PM UTC

abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

I agree with every fact you said yet my conclusion is that humans are valuable. Why? Because your frame of reference is the world, mine is the known universe. Humans are so fucking unlikely. Matter that somehow can experience its own (and others) being is so crazy unlikely I feel anything other than valuing it is just wrong.

In German we have a word called "Zweckoptimismus" that would translate to purposeful optimism. It is the optimism of someone who knows the world isn't good, but accepting it as bad would make it even worse, so you operate under a defiant optimism without ignoring the reality of the world.

Re: You are not your job

#305

Post by uoaei » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 1:41 PM UTC

meta_gunslinger wrote: post #301

stalfie wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incredibly naive. Hunter gatherer communities, especially those in regions without an abundance of food, are and were extremely selective about who were accepted and who weren't. This starts from infancy where non-desirable babies were simply killed. Estimates vary greatly but perhaps around a third to half of "modern" hunter gatherer tribes practice infanticide. The stated reasoning behind infanticides is of…

Don't wake him up from his "Noble Savage" fever-dream.

Yes let's all revel in the sunlight of Enlightenment thinking. That's really going well.

Re: You are not your job

#306

Post by senordevnyc » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 1:43 PM UTC

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #205

senordevnyc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within a few years I think UBI or UBS will be required for people to continue living, in which case basic needs (bills) won't be a concern. There's just no way for us to transition fast enough to avoid high unemployment as AI replaces large swaths of jobs. I do worry about the ~10 year transition it will take for societal governments to react. This strikes me as wildly optimistic. People aren't going to be able to li…

$2k of unconditional income means that the most basic bread at your store will cost $150 a loaf, and a bar of butter $180, $200 if unsalted.

This also seems wildly unrealistic. In a world where we need UBI because automation is destroying most jobs, I'd also expect food to get cheaper. In fact, I think almost everything would get cheaper except real estate, which is actually where I worry you'd see the kind of inflation you're talking about.

Re: You are not your job

#307

Post by bee_rider » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 1:44 PM UTC

CaptWillard wrote: post #295

giantg2 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finding evidence that disable people existed does not provide evidence that they were not able to contribute in some way. It's incredibly ableist to assume they couldn't.

I say this with all due respect and as someone who is struggling to envision their own ability to meaningfully contribute in the likely future: Nature is ableist. Humanity rises above it to the extent that we can, but ...

I think we have a skewed perception of ability, now that we’re connected via the internet to the whole rest of humanity.

Nature is ableist in a lot of ways… if you had diabetes in some ancient tribe you’d basically be screwed. But if you had an amputated leg, I dunno. You could still be the best flint knapper in the tribe.

I mean, think of your extended circle of friends and acquaintances, your 100 “closest” friends. In particular, think back on the community grew up in, if you’ve subsequently moved to a tech hub that accumulates rare talent. I bet picking through your hobbies there are a couple potentially useful things that you’d be a top-tier contributor in. Most people are really bad at almost everything they don’t do, after all.

I’m not going to engage in some prehistoric idealism. The past was pretty brutal. But we’d probably all die by getting little infected cuts, not because we were abandoned by our tribes.

Re: You are not your job

#308

Post by ssrshh » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 1:45 PM UTC

bayarearefugee wrote: post #112

zinodaur wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole world is hurting pretty bad right now when it comes to tech jobs - America seems to be hurting the least. I'm not saying the tech job situation in America isn't bad - but the world dances to America's fiddle, and its frustrating hearing Americans complain about how hard their situation is while their boot is firmly planted on my neck

I completely understand where you are coming from, but try not to hate on American laborers because of this situation, that is no more helpful than Americans blaming immigrants for their job woes. It is the wealthy capitalist class that has the boot planted on all of our necks. I do recognize that the outcome is worse for some people than others, but keeping us fighting each other is how they continue to maintain pow…

I hate that you can't even talk about this stuff without being called a communist or something

Re: You are not your job

#309

Post by abcde666777 » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 1:47 PM UTC

codemog wrote: post #154

abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

Hey you’re welcome to your view. In my view that’s an insanely disgusting devaluation of human life that’s been put into peoples brains by propaganda. Capitalism and materialism sure is great huh.

Well here's a thing - I don't think it's capitalism which made me think this way, or even living in the first world. The first world in my experience is big on preaching the dogma that we're all special and valuable (whether it practices what it preaches aside).

Rather my view actually came from observing violence - between humans, but also in nature, and deeper still as a product of reality.

We exist in these fragile bags of flesh and bone. To a hungry lion we'd just be food.

And we behave the same - take for example the eating of meat. I'm a meat eater myself so this isn't anything preachy, but consider this - many animals are quite beautiful beings, possessed of their own personalities (we see it in our pets).

But that instrinsic value they have doesn't stop us from turning them into steaks.

On the one hand I wish you were right - I wish the world were beautiful and our souls along with it, and that I could sing that song.

But it doesn't always look that way. And worse still, I think it all started at the level of nature, not at the level of capitalism. We attribute too much significance to the human race when we lay such woes only at our own feet.

Re: You are not your job

#310

Post by mathgeek » Mon, Mar 23, 2026, 1:51 PM UTC

abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

> That leads to a harsh conclusion: human beings aren't that valuable as individuals. We are in fact very disposable and replaceable.

Wait until you get to the part of philosophy that hinges on this being an invention of our own making. Human beings have decided that human beings are disposable. Just like we decided that gold was valuable (and to many, more valuable).