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Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

theguardian.com

301–310 of 370 posts

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#301
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota’s leadership is staunchly anti-EV

Toyota sells EVs. They sell the bZ3, bZ4, bZ5, bZ7, bZ3X, bZ Woodland, C-HR+, Lexus RZ, Lexus ES, and soon the Hilux EV. The Lexus ES: https://electrek.co/2026/03/19/lexus-launches-es-ev-with-300...

They do, however they have been very vocal in their reluctance to invest in that strategy.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they could find the power for the data centers, why can’t we find it for EVs?

But they didn’t find power for data centres. That’s one of their problems.

So there's no new capacity that went online for the new build-outs? None of that could've been used for residential capacity?

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#303
post #82

I've had a rough time with the last two EVs I've owned. I bought a Honda e in 2020 because of its retro-future charm, but ended up being disappointed by several things: - the range was miserable - the software quality was bad - no OTA updates ever (despite Honda's promises) - slow charging - poor public charging infrastructure in Germany I should have known that a 35 kW battery wouldn't deliver great range or chargin…

I really don't know why EVs necessitate a new software platform. Car makers are shit at software. Actually nearly everyone is shit at software. I know they want to turn their cars into mobile subscription-based analytics platforms for the money but combining it with the concept of the drivetrain power supply is just unnecessary and it's actually potentially lethal for the future company. Yes it's a nice try to bamboozle people into thinking that it's normal and actually somehow necessary for a car to be a wheeled iPad when it's electric, but that only works if the iPad side actually works.

When people see you your EVs are a bug ridden mess and say no thank you, they're not rejecting your electric cars because they're electric. The answer isn't to retreat from electric and then excrete the same shitty software from the shelved EVs into the legacy ICE models. Now you just made people annoyed by the remaining cars that you do sell.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#304
post #258
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work all over Europe and I’m not super impressed with the state of charging infrastructure in general and it seems particularly bad in German. One thing that’s super annoying and this is not specific to Germany, but why the fuck do I need some shitty app to use your charger? Should be tap and go like any other purchase. You know, like how I pay for my petrol? Seems to me like everyone wants to force an app down my…

> why the fuck do I need some shitty app to use your charger? I have PHEV that doesn't pull much from a charger, and I usually don't use chargers for money, but... When I charged for fun while I was shopping at a grocery store, it ended up being like a 70 cent charge. If you bill 70 cents to a credit card, it doesn't make sense. Tieing it to an app, you can either charge more and have me loan you the balance, or you…

This is where China has it right. You can pay 1 yuan by WeChat no problem. Scan the QR code, enter "1", the shop terminal says "1 yuan paid" out loud, job done. And yes some things are 1 yuan, for example picking up a parcel from a parcel locker a day late.

Yes, the entire economy is beholden to two payment portals (WeChat and Alipay) and I'm sure the analytics are off the scale and you're completely fucked if you can't use or get banned from the platform but the actual 99% user experience is exactly the microtransaction dream that people have been unable to solve in the west for decades.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#305
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota sells EVs. They sell the bZ3, bZ4, bZ5, bZ7, bZ3X, bZ Woodland, C-HR+, Lexus RZ, Lexus ES, and soon the Hilux EV. The Lexus ES: https://electrek.co/2026/03/19/lexus-launches-es-ev-with-300...

They do, however they have been very vocal in their reluctance to invest in that strategy.

Toyota's strategy is working. They have been the best selling automaker for the last six years straight. Last year they had record sales:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota...

As time goes on BEVs will make up a greater percentage of their sales.

As BEVs get cheaper and more practical demand will keep going up. Toyota will follow BEV demand.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is all this Battery waste good for the environment? #ElectrifiedEnvironmentalDestruction

Mostly by replacing the use of a gasoline-burning internal combination engine car.

And instead moving to a component made of critical raw materials with recycling rates of <5%.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly by replacing the use of a gasoline-burning internal combination engine car.

And instead moving to a component made of critical raw materials with recycling rates of <5%.

I'm curious where you got those numbers from. I did a quick search and find wildly different numbers (depending on method and source, from ~60% to >98%).

However I don't find anywhere claiming anywhere near Example source of manufacturers claiming >95% [0].

0: https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/how-well-can-electric-vehicl...

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#308
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> poor public charging infrastructure in Germany Dunno, had a trip through it last year, there are more than enough chargers. Some of them were literally free. I have 70kWh battery though. Also, I paid much less than 40k for my chinese SUV. The software is buggy though, a random reboot on motorway doesn't feel nice.

It depends where you are. I live in a somewhat rural area in Northern Germany. There are some chargers, but many of them are out of service like the one next door. I've never stumbled upon a free charger though.

Do you not charge at home? I charge at home 99% of the time. I only really need the public infra when I'm going to the big city, or when going on a roadtrip.

I charge with the granny charger at home.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#309
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inversely I leased a Fiat 500e for a year in Detroit Michigan and had no issues with range ~130 miles. I would plug it in nightly as I had a level 2 charger installed at my house. The experiment was quite successful. I just didn’t like front wheel drive on somedays with heavy snow. I used it for commuting to work, buying groceries and visiting friends nearby. It met my needs and I feel a slightly bigger car with 4 do…

Sadly, I don't own a wall box. So I'm dependent on public infrastructure. If I could charge at home I'd be even happier with my car.

I charge my car with the granny charger dangling out the window next to where I park. Been doing so for 2 years now. I have some high density foam packed in the window crack to keep the cold out. Im in Ireland.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly I think it's kind of accepted by this point that overnight charging is a prerequisite to a good experience with an EV.

It's not a prerequisite: I see lots of people plugging their cars at public chargers in my residential area; I assume they charge once a week while doing groceries or dining out.

Public charging can easily be 2x or 3x as expensive.
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