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Our commitment to Windows quality

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#301

Post by QuercusMax »

nomel wrote: post #255
dmos62 wrote: post #195

I'm somewhat surprised that Windows is still most of personal computers. In my eyes, it's fundamentally inferior to Linux, and its superficial superiority only comes from the ecosystem, which is to say adoption, not some inherent trait. But then, since Linux adoption didn't meaningfully change in the last 20 years, I'm forced to confront the fact that either I'm wrong about its fundamentals, or the market is able to…

> it's fundamentally inferior to Linux The context here is the average user, so you need to consider if this they share this perspective of fundamentally inferiority that is so obvious to you. Here's a litmus test: Put your non-programmer relative in front of each, have them do some common simple tasks, like print an email on their printer, and ask them. You are *NOT* an average user. edit: people are focusing on the…

Setting up printers on Linux is way easier than windows. Usually you don't have to do anything at all special at all as long as it's a fairly well known manufacturer. ChromeOS is just linux after all, and it uses the exact same CUPS infra under the hood, and it works just fine.

On Windows you often have to download and install drivers, which is always a headache.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#302

Post by malfist »

dmos62 wrote: post #195

I'm somewhat surprised that Windows is still most of personal computers. In my eyes, it's fundamentally inferior to Linux, and its superficial superiority only comes from the ecosystem, which is to say adoption, not some inherent trait. But then, since Linux adoption didn't meaningfully change in the last 20 years, I'm forced to confront the fact that either I'm wrong about its fundamentals, or the market is able to…

If my middle monitor didn't require a screen resolution change and revert to not be black after every boot or wake I'd use Linux all the time, but right now I can't make it work without a big hassle and believe me, I tried

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#303

Post by motbus3 »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #264
dijit wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people want a web browser. Even Microsofts esteemed moat (office) is “Web only” on the lowest tier.

PC gaming revenue on its own is around $45 Billion a year and there are all sorts of vertical market software that only runs on Windows. But even if all most people want is browser, why go through the hassle of running Linux? I usually recommended a Windows PC to most people because on the low end, they are cheap, disposable, and if the one odd program they might want to run isn’t available, I didn’t have to hear abo…

I believe this even without checking the numbers. That said, I now own a steam deck and I only buy games supported.

There is a new game with no support? So sorry. Can't be done

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#304

Post by nickorlow »

twobitshifter wrote: post #138
protoster wrote: post #81

So why did they make taskbar bottom only in the first place? Too difficult to implement? Branding? No room for ads when it's vertical?

Performance. They couldn't even handle seconds in the clock on win11 release.

It cracks me up that the toggle for this advises you that it will cause your battery to die faster

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#305

Post by rolandhvar »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #269
dmos62 wrote: post #195

I'm somewhat surprised that Windows is still most of personal computers. In my eyes, it's fundamentally inferior to Linux, and its superficial superiority only comes from the ecosystem, which is to say adoption, not some inherent trait. But then, since Linux adoption didn't meaningfully change in the last 20 years, I'm forced to confront the fact that either I'm wrong about its fundamentals, or the market is able to…

Windows is not technically inferior to Linux. To the extent it has problems, it is mainly because of top-down anti-user behaviour mandated from corporate. But anyone capable of using Linux is capable of hacking out that BS and getting a generally superior experience. I use both literally side-by-side, two laptops with a KVM switch, and I still greatly prefer Windows for many reasons. Some reasons: Even as a low-level…

+1 on the UI thing.

I don't know what it is, but UI on Linux always feels too disjoint from the rest of the system.

It's a bit like how Windows 3.11 was just UI-on-DOS. I get the same feeling.

Don't get me wrong - I love Linux for all its CLI use but for some reason I've never been able to primary drive it without going insane after a week.

Windows just seems to feel more put-together and I guess that's because the kernel probably has hacks to support Office, and Explorer probably has hacks to support the kernel, etc.

The only other system I've felt this level of unity in is FreeBSD with its userland+kernel harmony.

Maybe I need to try a Linux desktop again as I haven't done it in ~10y but the other comment here about Fedora not feeling production ready doesn't inspire much hope...

Any ideas?

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#306

Post by fsloth »

dmos62 wrote: post #195

I'm somewhat surprised that Windows is still most of personal computers. In my eyes, it's fundamentally inferior to Linux, and its superficial superiority only comes from the ecosystem, which is to say adoption, not some inherent trait. But then, since Linux adoption didn't meaningfully change in the last 20 years, I'm forced to confront the fact that either I'm wrong about its fundamentals, or the market is able to…

Ok.

Look.

I guess we all care about software business here.

And computer? It’s what consumers buy from store. Preferably in cybermonday or similar sale.

To run the software they ran on their previous computer.

They hope slightly faster. But honestly? They couldnt tell. Anyway the new computer is shinier.

OS? What’s that? (They honestly could not care less)

They dont buy apple for the os. They buy it for the brand.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#307

Post by QuercusMax »

fgonzag wrote: post #242
dmos62 wrote: post #195

I'm somewhat surprised that Windows is still most of personal computers. In my eyes, it's fundamentally inferior to Linux, and its superficial superiority only comes from the ecosystem, which is to say adoption, not some inherent trait. But then, since Linux adoption didn't meaningfully change in the last 20 years, I'm forced to confront the fact that either I'm wrong about its fundamentals, or the market is able to…

Change is hard. My father is a 70-year-old software engineer who programs .NET Core in Notepad and builds using custom BAT files that build the project using csc (the outright compiler). He browses and copies files in the Windows Terminal. He is also accustomed to Linux since we deploy to it in our business, and he can do everything comfortably in the Linux terminal. He trusts me almost blindly, yet I can’t convince…

Notepad, of all things, is a CRAZY thing to be so tied to. It's not even a good editor! MS-DOS edit.com was honestly a much better experience.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#308

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

colordrops wrote: post #284
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and its superficial superiority only comes from the ecosystem So the only superiority is that it runs the apps most people want to run? And this is why geeks are always the “Less space than Nomad. No Wireless. Lame” types or the HN equivalent when talking about DropBox: “For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and…

What a horrible take, nothing but a tautology. It only runs the apps most people want to use because it's installed on so many computers, so developers target it. Linux can run anything Windows can. It's the same hardware, and if it was a much more popular desktop you bet your life that banks and streaming companies and AAA game developers would target linux as a supported platform. Has nothing to do with the quality…

It doesn’t matter why it only runs apps most people want to use. As long as you don’t think a “quality” of something is that “it can do what I want it to do”.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#309

Post by sunaookami »

Recently got an HP ProBook for a relative to replace his old 2011 ThinkPad with Kubuntu 24.04 and I was shocked how laggy and unusable Windows 11 was. Every menu has tons of latency, programs take forever to start, even something simple like Rufus. File Explorer is a laggy mess, the whole OS feels like you are walking through mud. After a reboot there was a fullscreen message about "finish setting up the device" (??? it's already set up) with the only options being Confirm and "Remind me in 3 days". Thankfully my relative was comfortable with Kubuntu and all his files were there (and frankly we were too lazy to set everything up from scratch again) so I just cloned his old drive and Kubuntu runs like a dream! I'm not someone who would advocate for Linux because it still has very rough edges (even more so than 10 years ago somehow) and has a higher learning curve but Windows 11 is unbelievable bad. I switched to macOS roughly around Windows 11's release so my only other experience was at work (where I constantly complain about the TWO context menus!!!).

The last performant Windows version was Windows 8, despite its UX flaws. It actually made old computers faster and it started going downhill with the very first Windows 10 Technical Preview. I doubt that MS will reach that level of performance and stability again.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#310

Post by inferniac »

dmos62 wrote: post #195

I'm somewhat surprised that Windows is still most of personal computers. In my eyes, it's fundamentally inferior to Linux, and its superficial superiority only comes from the ecosystem, which is to say adoption, not some inherent trait. But then, since Linux adoption didn't meaningfully change in the last 20 years, I'm forced to confront the fact that either I'm wrong about its fundamentals, or the market is able to…

"it's fundamentally inferior to Linux"

I installed linux mint on a new drive in January

Firefox was tearing awfully on just scrolling

Surely I just need to install Nvidia drivers

Install drivers, but they dont work due to some secure boot interaction with driver signing, that made me jump through quite a few hoops (thx to AI for walking me through it fairly well)

I'm sorry but an average person is not ready for this level of bs in their daily life

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