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Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

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Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#301

Post by pjmlp »

wildredkraut wrote: post #186
MBCook wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it’s a conspiracy because they’ve infiltrated the seats of power? It’s not that developers of those projects think this is the better path forward?

Nope, there has been tons of commits in regard of X11, code refractions, bug fixes and new features, in the past 17 years. Yes most of them blocked for the sake of ideology, not conspiracy, it's more like a religious thinking.

GPL, FSF are religious movements, in a certain way.

That is why they even have manifestos of their mission and such.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#302

Post by simonask »

denkmoon wrote: post #232
drnick1 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Man Windows(Pro) is just such a nice desktop and host now Windows is terrible relative to a recent version of GNOME on Wayland, slow, bloated, full of spyware and AI.

Just gonna jump in with the alternate view, if you like Windows desktop but not Windows, KDE is just amazing now. I didn’t enjoy it much in be KDE3 and 4 days but I’m loving Plasma 6.

Plasma 6 has worked flawlessly for me, even on NVIDIA graphics out of the box (Arch, btw).

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#303

Post by simonask »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #202
martinald wrote: post #7

FWIW I recently switched full time to Linux and have had absolutely 0 problems with GNOME, Wayland and Fedora, though I am using an AMD GPU. wl-copy works fine, askpass works, copy and paste works, screen sharing with Google Meet works, drag and drop works. Using an iphone as a webcam works as does recording my screen. Most importantly using multiple monitors with fractional scaling works perfectly. AFIAK this is not…

It's really simple, then I have to use GNOME or KDE or any other thing that is on Wayland which I don't use. AwesomeWM, Xmonad, Fluxbox, OpenBox and many other interfaces just aren't on Wayland and have no intention to be because it just doesn't really do well what they want to and they don't feel like maintaining two versions. The real issue with Wayland and “setting back” isn't what the article says, but just that…

You're lamenting the use of time by people, but you are not those people's boss.

People work on what they want to work on. There is no rule that people who worked on Wayland (and I happen to think they did a great job) would have worked on Xorg instead, or that the original motivations for building Wayland are invalid.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#304

Post by pjmlp »

h4ch1 wrote: post #41
queuebert wrote: post #24

I was going to ask, why hasn't anyone ported NeXTSTEP to modern architectures? It was a pretty decent windowing system. Then I realized duh that's what Apple did with OS X. Too bad they ruined it.

I wasn't alive at the time NeXTSTEP was a thing, but I did look at a demo[0] to figure out what you were talking about (i love building/tinkering with window managers); it just looks like a regular old window manager? Is there something I'm missing/something specific you're talking about? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf5o5liZxnA

Besides the sibling comment, it was a full stack experience, just like most operating systems outside UNIX land.

NeXTSTEP (carried on with OS X), NeWS, Irix are kind the exception on UNIX land.

There is a vertical integration from kernel to application programming and user desktop, alongside its hardware, to provide an unique experience.

In what hardware can do, what programming languages are the official one, THE framework to do XYZ.

Not a mismatch of pieces that often we need to break a corner so that they barely fit with each other.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#306

Post by pjmlp »

neoCrimeLabs wrote: post #28
queuebert wrote: post #24

I was going to ask, why hasn't anyone ported NeXTSTEP to modern architectures? It was a pretty decent windowing system. Then I realized duh that's what Apple did with OS X. Too bad they ruined it.

Also, https://www.gnustep.org/ That reminds me, I should pull out my NeXT Cube and play with it. That machine is 33mhz of pure power. :-D None the less I still love it.

My graduation thesis was to port visualisation software from NeXT into Windows, obviously rewriting it in the process.

My supervisor used to have a Cube, and every time I visited his office for demos or questions, there it was left in the corner, with the expectation that everything related to NeXT was going to be away.

Thus this project, and others, as means to keep the research going.

This was before Jobs coming back to Apple, and OpenStep not really going as well as hoped for.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#308

Post by pjmlp »

MBCook wrote: post #159
WesBrownSQL wrote: post #115

Yeah, I'm stuck on X11 since Wayland and NVIDIA with two video cards for display is hot garbage. I have been a Linux user on the command line since the days of root and boot floppies. I don't think the desktop has felt this broken to me since the early days. I'm a tech veteran and don't have a problem working through issues, but when the issue is "you're running Wayland compositor," Then that's a problem I can't fix.…

There seem to be a lot of people in other places in these comments saying things work for them with Nvidia just fine. But it also sounds like whether things work is heavily dependent on how up-to-date the distribution is. I’m not sure if that’s tied in with Nvidia or not.

The usual Linux discussion forums spirit for the last 30 years. :)

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#309

Post by DonHopkins »

happymellon wrote: post #246
throwawa14223 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get all of what’s going on but from the outside it seems like the xLibre guys got a lot of negative attention for doing that.

If you don't know what's going on, why comment? A guy decided that after getting all his patches rejected because they cause tests to fail, doesn't compile, etc. that the problem is everyone else and decided to fork XOrg. He then announced that the problem wasn't his code that didn't compile but DEI so based the entire forking around being a political conservative. Everything I've seen written by him shows him to be…

"... generic human experiment ... creates a new humanoid race ... toxic spike protein ..." - Enrico Weigelt on LKML

"... insane and technically incorrect ... idiotic lies ... you don't know what you are talking about ... SHUT THE HELL UP ..." - Linus Torvalds

https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957

It's not just his code.

The COVID conspiracy theories Enrico Weigelt pushes are riddled with bugs, logical errors, and security holes, and don't compile or pass tests either.

Linus already reviewed both the code and the reasoning, and rejected them for failing basic correctness.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#310

Post by dgan »

martinald wrote: post #7

FWIW I recently switched full time to Linux and have had absolutely 0 problems with GNOME, Wayland and Fedora, though I am using an AMD GPU. wl-copy works fine, askpass works, copy and paste works, screen sharing with Google Meet works, drag and drop works. Using an iphone as a webcam works as does recording my screen. Most importantly using multiple monitors with fractional scaling works perfectly. AFIAK this is not…

I am on latest Fedora Gnome, and tab switching between windows randomly stucks. It's so annoying, i had to go back to X11, even if handles badly high dpi laptop; the alternative being to reboot randomoy in the middle of the work
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