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Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

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Re: Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

#301

Post by eudamoniac »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #294
eudamoniac wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your solution to "the stupidity of the housing markets in cities" is to increase their demand, and to make housing overall more unaffordable? Sorry, no, I'm not going to raise my family of six plus a dog in a high rise. Encouraging happy, productive families by subsidizing suburbs is good.

> increase their demand, and to make housing overall more unaffordable? You're not thinking systematically. Increased demand isn't the only variable. Consider also how gov't and the market respond to increased demand and need, especially if the paradigm of normative human settlement changes. Social pressure forces changes. Diffusing pressure allows gov'ts to kick the can down the road, which is what led to the suburb…

> Consider also how gov't and the market respond to increased demand and need, especially if the paradigm of normative human settlement changes. Social pressure forces changes.

The government already isn't effectively responding to increased demand and need, so I really disagree that making the problem worse will overall help anything. That is basically accelerationism.

The rest of your post I disagree with from value-based first principles, e.g. "children are shackled and isolated" and "you can't do...anything without driving", as though the only things for children to do in the world are shop and consume in an urban center, so there is no point discussing it.

Re: Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

#302

Post by UncleMeat »

Analemma_ wrote: post #41
twodave wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t political.

Well, there's a little two-step here where pronatalists will insist “it's not political” with one side of their mouth, and then invite Jack Posobeic to be the opening night headline speaker at NatalCon with the other.

One of the funniest things that ever happened was coverage of the speed dating event at NatalCon that was almost entirely dudes.

Re: Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

#303

Post by UncleMeat »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #300
UncleMeat wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't be as deeply involved in your kids' lives if you've got 8 of them. There is a reason why every large family has sibling-parents. Visible elements of pronatalism are largely focused on assigning a particular family role to women and trying to increase the supply of a particular kind of desirable baby (often white, but sometimes focused on IQ selection and other eugenic elements).

I only know one family with >=8 kids (they have 10) and not that well so I can't really comment on them. I know many with 4-6 kids though. It's true that in most cases the women have a traditional family role (not always though, I know one couple where the wife is a very successful cardiologist and the husband is an athletic trainer). Parental involvement is usually higher in these families than among the 2-3 childre…

I suspect that parental involvement is higher in aggregate but not when it comes to the time dedicated to each child.

Every younger sibling from a large family that I know was in large part raised by their older siblings.

Re: Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

#304

Post by k__ »

Tepix wrote: post #292
k__ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German living in Germany, I had the impression most companies here are anti-WFH. It got better with COVID, but you still have to dig, to find something 100% remote.

100% remote is rare, yes. But 30-80% WFH is quite widespread in office jobs.

Yes, I was surprised that my girlfriend found a job in a big company where she only has one office say a week.

Re: Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

#305

Post by tootie »

palmotea wrote: post #285
tootie wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean Elon Musk is not really subtle about his white supremacy and how it dovetails with his calls for more babies. I don't think he'd even be upset by reading this. I'm well aware that birth rates are falling in the rich world. It's a universal problem across all wealthy countries regardless of immigration or social policy. I'm also not certain that this is some kind of urgent issue we need to do anything about. It…

> I'm well aware that birth rates are falling in the rich world. It's a universal problem across all wealthy countries regardless of immigration or social policy. It's not just the "rich world". China is deeply below replacement rate (for unique reasons), and even India has dropped below replacement rate ( https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/rural-indias-total... ). Those aren't wealthy countries. > I'm also no…

I don't think anyone is saying immigration is a solution to falling fertility rates. I was pointing to the irony/hypocrisy of the people worried about there being too few Americans also worrying there are too many immigrants. And while I'm aware there are some negatives to falling population, there are also positives and the entire situation is manageable without resorting to exotic solutions. I still don't understand why it's urgent.

And while I'm sure most everybody can have misapprehensions about the world beyond their observation, I'd reckon that liberals are far less misguided than conservatives and also ask why the hell is that relevant? We're talking about people who are coming here. I don't really need to know what's happening Haiti beyond knowing there are people who desperately prefer to live in the US and are seemingly adjusting very well and definitely not eating anyone's cats.

Re: Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

#306

Post by shimman »

cassianoleal wrote: post #104
softwaredoug wrote: post #51

If I could afford to live 15 minutes from the office I 100% would go to an office. But housing, transportation, daycare costs make that impractical. If they really want me in the office, companies need to engage on these issues in the metros they live in. They need to clear NIMBY barriers to urban housing, support transit, and good parental leave.

In this case you either live in the middle of an industrial hub or you can’t change jobs, so I’m not sure what it actually solves. Hiring by catchment area does seem very appealing for anyone - neither the companies nor the candidates.

You do realize the vast majority of jobs are not in industrial hubs but urban cities right? Urban cities tend to have more than one employer too. Before I moved across the country, there were maybe a dozen or so companies that were hiring devs where I lived; now after moving there are around 800 companies that hire devs.

In this new, for me, city, Boston, it's quite hard to build housing for reasons that seem to only favor those in existing houses.

Re: Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

#307

Post by phlakaton »

buellerbueller wrote: post #296
phlakaton wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no lemonade to be found here at this time. What there is to be found are a bunch of tone-deaf people who seem utterly ignorant and indifferent to the war's reality.

Obviously there is, you just refuse to recognize it. I think this war is terrible, Trump is the worst president of American history by a wide margin, and yet, I can still be happy that we are able to glean insight from learnings that came about as a result of forces not under my control. Finding good among the bad is such a commonplace occurrence that my native tongue, English, has many metaphors for it. I already me…

As a Mayflower descendant I would scarcely say that. But the fact that you offer cheap platitudes and tales from hundreds of years ago to justify why it's OK to consider why the current bombing and slaughter is good for our work-life balance remains astonishingly tone-deaf. This is absolutely a you problem.

Re: Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

#308

Post by ttawehed »

LiquidSky wrote: post #122
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #109

I don't think Musk and Andreesseen are who most people would associate with the concept of pronatalism. The headline was surprising to me because most of the people I know who could be described as "pronatalist" are strongly for WFH policies.

>I don't think Musk and Andreesseen are who most people would associate with the concept of pronatalism. Musk is for sure. Doesn't he have like 100 kids because he's constantly trying to get women to become pregnant by his sperm?

[dead]

Re: Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

#309

Post by ttawehed »

Esophagus4 wrote: post #220
LiquidSky wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second one is mostly accurate, yes. There aren't really many good rational arguments for requiring full-time in-office attendance.

There are, you just don’t believe in them. That’s different.

[dead]

Re: Silicon Valley's "Pronatalists" Killed WFH. The Strait of Hormuz Brought It Back

#310

Post by Corrado »

Swizec wrote: post #164
cosmic_quanta wrote: post #52

I will die on this hill: tech firms that mandated 5 days in the office was about soft layoffs, rather than a principled stance on individual performance under WFH. My "evidence" is that trading firms that kept raking in the money, and that benefit from maximum productivity of their employees, still generally have a hybrid work culture.

> I will die on this hill: tech firms that mandated 5 days in the office was about soft layoffs, rather than a principled stance on individual performance under WFH “True work only happens in person with human collaboration! Everyone must come back” 2 years pass “Oh wow we can replace everyone with a chatbot this is amazing” narrator: It was the interest rates all along. Many of these tech businesses are fundamentall…

You know, I never realized the "human collaboration" against "AI can replace you" dissonance before but I believe that you are complete correct.
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