Live data from Hacker News

Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

lwn.net

301–308 of 308 posts

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#301
post #128

The quality argument against LLM-generated code has always seemed weak to me. Maintainers already review patches because humans routinely submit bad code. The review process is the filter.

But bad human submissions are expensive to send and expensive to receive.

LLM submissions are cheap to send and expensive to receive.

This creates a spam (slop) problem, just like in other contexts.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI generated code isn't owned by anyone, it can't be copyrighted, so it cannot be licensed. Translation: AI generated code is in the public domain in the US (until and unless something changes). You can freely incorporate public domain code into any other codebase. You can relicense it as you see fit. Public domain material is not viral the way the GPL is. Furthermore, if you make changes to public domain code the…

You can "relicense" it as you see fit, but anyone can just copy it and ignore your license and its terms entirely, it's not your property to put a license on. See also Red Hat IP lawyer's opinion on trying to license the chardet "rewrite": https://github.com/chardet/chardet/issues/334#issuecomment-4...

From a copyright office report [0] linked in that issue section:

> in many circumstances these outputs will be copyrightable in whole or in part—where AI is used as a tool, and where a human has been able to determine the expressive elements they contain. Prompts alone, however, at this stage are unlikely to satisfy those requirements

I'll just note that "unlikely" doesn't mean "not possible".

It's an interesting question but it's perplexing to me that an IP lawyer of all people would be suggesting to remove a license that might or might not apply in practice. Removing it could have legal consequences if it turns out to be copyrightable. Whereas leaving the notice there wouldn't be expected to have any consequences in the event that it turns out not to apply. Particularly the notice for a permissive OSI license.

To begin with the project is MIT licensed which amounts to public domain with extra steps. So it's the same thing at the end of the day regardless of how the law turns out.

On top of that, even if we suppose the LLM output to be public domain as soon as you later make modifications to the file the license in the header would come into force. It's functionally no different than copy-pasting a piece of public domain code and then editing it a bit.

[0] https://www.copyright.gov/ai/Copyright-and-Artificial-Intell...

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#303
debian's stance actually makes more sense than a ban. you can't detect the origin of a contribution reliably. what you can do is hold the contributor accountable for what they submit. the problem is when people use that accountability structure without the skill to back it up. the asymmetric warfare framing in the comments is right: the cost to submit low-quality PRs is near zero now. but the cost to review them didn't change. the maintainer burden goes up, not down. that's the pattern worth paying attention to: AI compresses the cost of producing output, but the responsibility for output quality doesn't compress with it.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for some reason that hasn't happned to me yet. im only in my 50ies, but I have been on a split keyboard for a long time...

I think a good routine matters a lot. I played a lot of video games in my youth and got carpal tunnel from there, and haven't been able to recover 100% since.

Yeah good point. I work really hard at taking breaks and moving around. where you using a controler/joystick a lot? I was mostly a keyboard warrior.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a good routine matters a lot. I played a lot of video games in my youth and got carpal tunnel from there, and haven't been able to recover 100% since.

Yeah good point. I work really hard at taking breaks and moving around. where you using a controler/joystick a lot? I was mostly a keyboard warrior.

I was playing rhythm games on a keyboard, so basically button mashing. The real killer was that I was pushing myself beyond what I was actually able to play. There's a certain technique to button-based rhythm games, and once you aren't able to read what is happening on the screen any more you tend to naturally transition to just brute force button mashing with high force, which tends to be very straining. I believe this was the problem for me.

If I had been a bit more intelligent at how I was learning, and focused on improving reading skill instead of simply wanting to play whatever music I liked, I would have probably never had problems. Rhythm games in general boil down to training your brain to read moving patterns and convert them to scheduled movements in your body (but mostly your hands). Once you get to an intermediate level you get these "flow states" where you realize you were basically unconscious for most of the song, not a single thought, just internally observing your body's reactions to the screen. Almost a type of meditation.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without a battle of ego. This resonates. Recently, I've started to consider Claude as a partner. I like how he's willing to accept he's wrong when you provide evidence. It can be more pleasant than working with humans.

Please don't anthropomorphize LLMs even further by assigning them gendered pronouns. LLMs are always "it"s. They're not alive, they're just really complicated linear algebra expressions. Prematurely anthropomorphizing them, even subtly like this, will come back to bite us if we keep doing it.

Why not? Claude is a male name, and the model behaves close enough to a human that I think it's fine to refer to it as a he or a she. Also note that some languages don't have neutral pronouns and it's perfectly fine to say a mosquito is a "he", and a spider a "she" for instance. Are they more humans than a LLM?

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#307

My two cents: I've been coding practically my entire life, but a few years back I sustained a pretty significant and lasting injury to my wrists. As such, I have very little tolerance for typing. It's been quite a problem and made full time work impossible. With the advent of LLMs, AI-autocomplete, and agent-based development workflows, my ability to deliver reliable, high-quality code is restored and (arguably) bett…

That's a super nice story. Sometimes we tend to forget the contributions of AI for the visually impaired or hearing-impaired people—for example, subtitles on Meta glasses or audio descriptions and such.

Wish you the best.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#308

My two cents: I've been coding practically my entire life, but a few years back I sustained a pretty significant and lasting injury to my wrists. As such, I have very little tolerance for typing. It's been quite a problem and made full time work impossible. With the advent of LLMs, AI-autocomplete, and agent-based development workflows, my ability to deliver reliable, high-quality code is restored and (arguably) bett…

[flagged]
Post reply on HN