lol why are people still using this garbage?
TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
301–310 of 458 posts
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#302I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…
It might be fine if they presented an honest choice. They are lying straight off though... police and safety team don't read messages only "if they needed to" to keep people safe. They do so for a large variety of other reasons, such as suppressing political dissent and asserting domination and control. I don't think we can expect most people to understand TikTok's BS here either. I notice even a skeptic like you is…
Anyone who doubts the requirement for e2e messaging should not be considered a skeptic, they are fully buying into whatever narrative LEO would like you to believe.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#303I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…
Trying to gaslight the public into thinking end to end encryption makes users less safe is not fine.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, but it comes down to framing. If you asked 'Would you support weakening encryption in messaging apps if it helped catch some criminals, even though it could make it easier for hackers to read your messages and steal your passwords, bank details, or personal photos?' I'd bet a large proportion of the general population would say no. But that side never gets explored, or there's an assumption that there's some wa…
We are technologists here. There is no technology that can determine if somebody is a pedophile. We can't make a system that exposes the data of pedophiles but is secure for everyone else. We think it has to be all or nothing. But other people are not technologists. Lawyers think the law is robust enough to determine if someone is a pedophile and only issue warrants for pedophile's data and simultaneously punish anyo…
In an ideal world it would work something like that. In reality in the UK the pattern more often is:
1. New power introduced after crisis or scandal, justified as exceptional and targeted
2. Enforcement is patchy or politically difficult. Police either lack resources or big tech platforms don't want to or can't play ball
3. Failure or abuse case becomes public and reported in chattering classes tabloid press
4. Response is not "use existing powers better" but expand powers, broaden scope, lower initial 'targeted' thresholds
5. Cycle repeats
Issue is compounded because you have politicians who will either not understand things or pretend not to understand things.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#305I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…
>I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app"
Disagree. To analogize why: privacy isn't heated seats, *its seat belts*. Comfort features and preferences are fine to tailor to your customers and your business model. Jaguar targets a different market than Ford, and that's just fine.
Safety features should be non-negotiable for all. Both Jaguar and Ford drivers merit the utmost protection against injury in crashes. Likewise, all applications that offer user messaging functionality should offer non-defective, non-harmful versions of it. To do that, e2e privacy is absolutely necessary.
>I just don't see the point in expecting some sort of principled stance out of them.
This is the defeatism that adds momentum to a downhill trajectory. Exactly the opposite approach arrests the slide - users expecting their applications and providers to behave in principled ways, and punishing those who do not, are what keeps principles alive. Failing to expect lawful and upright behavior out of those you depend on, be they political leaders or software solutions providers, guarantees that tomorrow's behavior will be less lawful and upright than yesterday's. Stop writing these people a pass for this horrible behavior, and start holding them unreasonably accountable for it, then we'll see behavior start to change in the direction that we mostly all agree that it needs to.
The most effective protests against internet censorship came from massive grass roots movements, with users drawing a line in the sand that they will not tolerate further impositions on their freedom.
>In some ways I think it's worse for places like Facebook to "care about privacy" and use E2EE but then massively under-resource policing of CSAM on their platform.
The irony is so manifest of billions of people having their privacy stripped by politicians and business elites in the name of protecting our children, while those politicians and business elites conspire en masse to prey on and sex traffick our children. If these forces actually took those concerns seriously, rather than sensing them as an opportunity to push ulterior motives, they'd be eating each other alive, right now. Half of DC, half of Hollywood, and at least a tenth of most major college administrations would ALL be at the docket.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
WhatsApp iPhone syncs to iCloud unencrypted by default[1]. iMessage also syncs to iCloud unencrypted by default[2]. [1] Depends on you paying for iCloud storage, so that you have space for a full phone backup to occur. [2] Might be "free" with "iMessage in iCloud", an option to enable separately.
> WhatsApp iPhone syncs to iCloud unencrypted by default[1]. Not true. You must choose to enable it or not when you set up new phone. On mine it does not back up
If you must "choose to enable" encryption, that implies it's off by default. If so, GP's statement is accurate.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
> WhatsApp iPhone syncs to iCloud unencrypted by default[1]. Not true. You must choose to enable it or not when you set up new phone. On mine it does not back up
If you must "choose to enable" encryption, that implies it's off by default. If so, GP's statement is accurate.
Choose to enable backups.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
Keeping children safe and prosecuting are too different concepts, only vaguely related. So no, being able to track pdfs doesn't make children safer. What keeps them safe is teaching them safe communication habits and keeping them away from things like Tiktok. We shouldn't make the world a worse place for every one because some parents can't take care of their children.
>Keeping children safe and prosecuting are too different concepts, only vaguely related. See also: That time the FBI took over a CSAM site and kept it running so they could nab a bunch of users.
Not necessarily saying what they did was right, but I think there's a strong utilitarian argument to be made that what they did in that case was, in fact, the best way to keep children safe.
What's more dangerous? CSAM on the internet? Or actual child predators running loose?
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#309I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…
>I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" Disagree. To analogize why: privacy isn't heated seats, *its seat belts*. Comfort features and preferences are fine to tailor to your customers and your business model. Jaguar targets a different market than Ford, and that's just fine. Safety features should be non-negotiable for all. Both Jaguar and Ford drivers merit the utmost protection against…
Tesla doesn't have parking sensors. They're a safety feature. There's lots of safety features in cars that are optional, we've got an entire rating system for the safety of cars.
We're talking about an app that's controlled by the CCP, I do expect them to take a principled stance - stances like Taiwan is a part of China and you can't be openly critical of the leader of the party. They don't have the same principles as you. You can force them to put in E2EE, but you can't force them to be honest about it or competent about it. I would rather know what we're getting than to push them to lie.
This is the same thing as the OpenAI/Anthropic thing. You've got Anthropic taking a principled stance and getting pain for it, and you've got OpenAI claiming to take the same stance, but somehow agreeing to the terms of the DoW. Do you think it's more likely that Anthropic carelessly caused themselves massive trouble, or do you think OpenAI is claiming to have got the concessions that clearly won't work in practice. I think it's naive to think the former.
Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But what responsibilities do megacorps have? Right now, everyone seems to avoid this question Clear, simple, direct: Whatever was required of The Bell Telephone Company and nothing more.
I'd say that at minimum social networks need to be required to show how their algorithm works and allow users control over their data. They must be able to know why a content was served to them. Nowadays social networks are so pervasive in society, affecting it and molding it to unknown interests, that this is the bare minimum for a free society. Ideally, users should be able to modify the algorithm, so they can get…
> Nowadays social networks are so pervasive in society, affecting it and molding it to unknown interests
I think this is the real issue. We should free ourselves from "social networks" such as Tiktok, Facebook, Instagram and others. Even with direct messages truly E2EE, they create countless other privacy problems. They enable surveillance of people at scale and should be completely shunned for that reason alone.