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Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#301

Post by dataflow »

cyphar wrote: post #270
legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

> So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. I disagree -- the third party doctrine that allows for governments to avoid serving/addressing warrants to the people whose data is actually being subpoenaed directly leads to things like the FISA warrant-rubber-stamp courts in the US. If the dat…

Could you explain/cite what you mean by letters not working the same way? You're saying government agencies can't give give the same sort of subpoena to said third parties? Or that if they did, it wouldn't work?

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#302

Post by SR2Z »

godelski wrote: post #158
legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

> I know we instinctively want to frame this as a privacy problem I think it is, but I think this is a more fundamental level of privacy than most people are thinking of when they think of privacy > In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly. Privacy people often talk about a concept called "Turnkey Tyranny". Really a reference to Jefferson's "elective despotism". The concept is that because any democracy…

A large part of why the government has slowly accumulated these powers is because Congress has been abdicating its power to the President under both Republican and Democratic administrations since the early 1900s.

The first change I would make with a majority in Congress is to change apportionment so that there is 1 representative per 50,000 people. All it needs is a simple majority, and it would neuter the rural-area advantage in the electoral college while also forcing the legislature to streamline its processes.

Texas will undoubtably try to gerrymander itself into a pretzel, but it's not nearly as easy to draw 582 stable districts that produce a huge Republican advantage - a minor demographic shift could easily lead to a backfiring blowout at the polls. With 6,835 seats in the House, Congress would be forced to streamline its procedures (goodbye, filibuster and reconciliation) and it would be significantly harder for the executive branch to ignore public disapproval.

Of course, this represents a ~15x dilution in the power of each current representative (who would then have to run in a new district) so I'm skeptical. Hopefully enough Democrats have woken up and realized that the country won't survive if it keeps going on like this and deep reforms are needed.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#303

Post by deepsun »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #280
deepsun wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because we made the "overstaying" an illegal offense. But there's no reason to -- if the guy was paying taxes the whole time, and never committed a serious crime, then we should be happy to welcome such guys, ramping up our GDP. Don't forget that the paperwork costs a lot, if one has children, can get close to $10k. Look at Spain -- instead of deporting "illegals", they just made them "legals" (those without a c…

If he was paying taxes during that time period he was also committing a felony.

All you need to pay taxes is an SSN. One can get an SSN in many ways, e.g. long ago on another visa. Same as income to pay on -- can be earned in many ways.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#304

Post by ropetin »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #282
dmix wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently around 300 students have been deported over pro-Palestine activism, similar to the person in the article who self-deported https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/05/visa-immigrati... > Legally, the answer is murky, one expert told The Washington Post — at least when it comes to combing through Supreme Court decisions for answers. The court has been clear that First Amendment protections from criminal o…

Why is this a bad thing? It's just like India kicking out those two tourists for political signs. I can't see any benefit at all to allowing tourist or student visas is this case to participate in "activism". https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/india-orders-british-tou...

If I'm reading you right, you're saying if one country does something bad, that makes it OK for another country to do the same? You can likely find a country in the world doing any heinous thing you can think of, so is everything on the table? What about positive things? Lots of countries have socialized medicine, so by your logic doesn't that mean the US should, too?

And if you think activism is bad for non-residents (non-citizens?) who do you think should decide what constitutes activism? A student goes to a pro-Israel rally, is that deportable activism? A tourist goes to an 'adopt-a-puppy' event at a no-kill shelter and donates $10, is that deportable activism?

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#305

Post by slg »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #283
abustamam wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "tall man in black short and red hat who may have committed a violent crime" with "anyone who looks like they may speak Spanish even if no crime has been committed," even if they have a valid government ID card and we arrive at the problem with ICE.

> "anyone who looks like they may speak Spanish even if no crime has been committed," There are two parts to it in my view. First, sure, I understand where you are coming from. At the same time I find this argument a bit problematic because if the numbers on border crossings from South America are true, and majority of those that crossed through are from South and Central America, who do you think ICE is going to loo…

>who do you think ICE is going to look for?

They should do some actually police work. This kind of "Papers, please" approach to immigration enforcement is dystopian. If you genuinely feel that illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be fixed, attack it systemically. Go through government, business, and housing records, find people who aren't here legally, and then go detain them. Don't just round people up based on nothing but their ethnicity and make them prove their innocence to you. It's inherently unAmerican, at least according to the ideals we like to claim we have (even if our history often falls short of those ideals).

>but they do arrest a significant amount of those as well.

Then arrest those people who commit crimes. If these people are guilty of something, why is ICE the one rounding them up? Why isn't the FBI or local police? If this is all motivated by a desire for lower crime, why are we treating it as an immigration issue instead of a crime issue?

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#306

Post by JohnMakin »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #258
JohnMakin wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“allow google to search for devices on your network?” I’m not trying to be condescending here, but I’m just asking what someone thinks is happening here and what they can do with information scanned on your network.

I don't follow how that's relevant? In terms of the information yielded by an administrative subpoena of an account will that even appear? I'm not clear how the result of the scan is being used. Suppose the data is retained in association with your pseudonymous account. So now in addition to my IP they have, what, the internal IPs and device names from my LAN? How does that lead directly to me without significant add…

use it as a thought experiment i guess. your devices will advertise themselves to your local network and are easily fingerprintable to any device with network permissions and talk back a lot more than they should. The only point I’m trying to make is that you can’t fool this kind of with filling in form that’s wrong.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#307

Post by lenerdenator »

kernal wrote: post #228
lenerdenator wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, whether or not people are able to do anything involves consequences for their actions. There's the "three" boxes of liberty that are meant to give a framework for how humans in a society are to introduce consequences to state actors who abuse rights: the soap box, the ballot box, and the jury box. So we need to start using at least those three to prevent human rights abuses with regard to search warrants.

What about the consequences for the people that let in millions of illegal aliens with criminal records that harmed and killed Americans? Should those politicians be charged as accessories?

I know there are people who shouldn't be here who have committed violent crime, but is it really millions? Is it to the point where we need to be letting God-knows-who run around American cities with tac gear and firearms dragging people off to inadequate detention facilities for over six months?

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#308

Post by throwpoaster »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #296
Nasrudith wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. You should always write rules under the assumption it will get in the hands of the worst people. If there is a 'become god-emperor' lever in your supposedly democratic government system then it is a shitty system.

No careful rulecrafting can survive the worst people being in charge.

That’s the topic of the Federalist Papers. It’s been working for 2.5 centuries.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#309

Post by arcanemachiner »

shevy-java wrote: post #110
legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

I don't see how what has been described here as "the system works as intended". A free state should not be able to sniff after people for made up reasons.

I'm having trouble imagining a way to describe a post-Patriot Act USA as a free state.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#310

Post by loeg »

bigyabai wrote: post #213
charcircuit wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I choose to not respond to people who reply to me in bad faith or if it is a tired argument. This comment thread is about how to avoid having law enforcement query Google for your data. My suggestion was to avoid getting in trouble in the first place to remove the need for law enforcement to care about you in the first place. I am not part of the law enforcement operation. I don't have all of the details ab…

> I don't have all of the details about what the person in the article did or did not do. How is your advice supposed to actually pertain to insulating against federal mistreatment, then? Contextually it reads like a series of accusations, which the parent is calling you out on.

We don't know this is mistreatment. It's not wrong for the government to subpoena data to investigate a crime.
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