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MIT Living Wage Calculator

livingwage.mit.edu

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Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#301

Post by 0sdi »

JamesBarney wrote: post #288
lp4v4n wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because 100 years of data says that this is a difference in expectations vs people being poorer. Yeah housing is more expensive than it should be due to regulation but despite that people are still much better off. People would raise a family on a single income. Boomers would work brain dead job and afford more than what a white collar worker can today, not to mention you could change careers when you wanted. Land w…

> You're completely out of touch. Even apartments are super expensive nowadays. I would gladly live in a house without A/C. Why do you have so much certainty about what it's like in the US now vs 70 years ago when you're not American?

This argument seems bit cheap. I'm not saying he is an expert, but you don't have to be diabetic to be expert of diabetes, for example. I would argue it might even make you biased about the subject.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#302

Post by bumby »

etchalon wrote: post #296
bumby wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Methodology is THE main criticism of research; it’s the most important piece. It’s more important than nit-picking results or anything else. Unless your the type to believe in starting with a conclusion and working backwards, but that’s bad science. And that doesn’t mean the method has to be perfect. But if it doesn’t reflect the true problem, or if is too weak to drawn conclusions from, it’s just story-telling. The…

You're not criticizing the methodology. I think you think you are, but you're not. All you have said is "the average doesn't match my experience" and "diet bad." Neither of those are methodological criticisms. They're just saying things.

It’s been discussed elsewhere , but we can’t get to details if we can’t get past the simplest of concepts. I think you are missing the critique because you’d prefer to argue than understand, but I’ll try to be more explicit.

Significant parts of the method are built on surveys. Surveys are often a poor measure because they tend to be more subjective and biased. That’s why nutrition surveys of dietitians have significant amounts of error. In addition, the surveyed data isn’t normalized for socio-economic class; that is, it sets the expected value at the “averages”. The implication is the living wage should provide the average level of subjective consumption. That, in turn, means the current average is now the lowest we are willing to accept as a society. That’s all well and good to discuss, but that’s more nuanced than anything you’ve brought up. And that’s doesn’t scratch the surface of the flawed reporting, where uncertainty isn’t part of the main discussion.

It’s clear the site is for laity but the problem (as we’ve seen) is that it just feeds people’s confirmation bias when they are more interested in being right than in understanding.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#303

Post by JamesBarney »

0sdi wrote: post #301
JamesBarney wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're completely out of touch. Even apartments are super expensive nowadays. I would gladly live in a house without A/C. Why do you have so much certainty about what it's like in the US now vs 70 years ago when you're not American?

This argument seems bit cheap. I'm not saying he is an expert, but you don't have to be diabetic to be expert of diabetes, for example. I would argue it might even make you biased about the subject.

If he was making an argument from data it would be cheap. But he's making an argument from lived experience against both data and someone who lives here.

Are you saying that the data is wrong and the only way to know what it's truly like to make it in America is to not live there? That's sounds insane.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#304

Post by BizarroLand »

bumby wrote: post #265
BizarroLand wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the minimum was the actual minimum, then why would the person with a decade of experience ever work for it?

Because sometimes people have other goals or are just not an industrious personality. I remember a radio interview with a fast food worker who’s response was basically “I like my job and don’t want to do something else, but I just want it to be a higher wage”

I guess P.T. Barnum was spitting facts when he said, "There's a sucker born every minute".

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#305

Post by bumby »

BizarroLand wrote: post #304
bumby wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because sometimes people have other goals or are just not an industrious personality. I remember a radio interview with a fast food worker who’s response was basically “I like my job and don’t want to do something else, but I just want it to be a higher wage”

I guess P.T. Barnum was spitting facts when he said, "There's a sucker born every minute".

Not sure what your point is. Are you saying people don’t act in a multi-objective way? Do you think people join the Marines because it’s the easiest way to make a buck? Or is it possible people aren’t just simple homo-economicus types trying to maximize their income with the lowest effort?
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