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ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

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Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#301

Post by triceratops »

xp84 wrote: post #125
Paracompact wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people have absolutist takes on these sorts of things. If the stated purpose makes sense ("stop illegal immigration"), they will dismiss tragedies as routine accidents of an imperfect world. If they have no sense of when exceptions become intolerable and course-correction becomes necessary, then by definition, no amount of evidence will change their mind.

What if we believe that those shootings are completely unacceptable (probably criminal), but that “have no immigration enforcement and permanently halt deportations” is also unacceptable? The latter seems to be the solution being pushed by one party. Like always, the left’s problem is that their proposed solutions read like they were written by teenagers, based on emotions and dismissive of the reasons why their supp…

> “have no immigration enforcement and permanently halt deportations” is also unacceptable? The latter seems to be the solution being pushed by one party.

Obama and Biden, famously, deported more people than Trump. And with a substantially smaller budget too. Is this "no immigration enforcement" party in the room with us right now?

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#302

Post by computerthings »

surgical_fire wrote: post #84
testfrequency wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this your way of sharing that you work at X or are open to hurting people in exchange for cash? Also, you can retain your morals and choose a career, it is optional to select where you work as it’s hopefully voluntary.

There's nothing voluntary when your options are homelessness and starvation. The bank won't accept your morals in lieu of money when accepting mortgage repayments. Thankfully I don't live in the US and I don't work for anything even remotely related to this. I don't know if I would have the fortitude in the current US job market (based on what I read here) to threat the well being of the wife and daughter by taking p…

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Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#303

Post by computerthings »

surgical_fire wrote: post #215
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathize with your situation, and I'm not calling you a monster. But "I had no choice, I had people depending on me" is the exact reasoning that has enabled every atrocity carried out by ordinary people; it's the banality of evil. None of the individual acts seem evil. Conducting a census isn't evil. Collating the data isn't evil. Arresting people with the wrong papers isn't necessarily evil. Driving a train isn'…

I understand quite well. The banality of evil is a thing because most people have actual very little power to enact meaningful change. Risking yourself for the well being of complete strangers is commendable, but often has an obscene cost for the individual. I reject that societal and systemic issues can be fixed by individual action, unless as an individual you are extremely powerful (and the ones that are typically…

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Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#304

Post by belorn »

donkeybeer wrote: post #282
somenameforme wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company is absolutely free to choose whether or not to do business with them, but an employee acting to try to undermine them as a customer or their relationship with the business is what would open the door to all these sort of laws and consequences, especially when that relationship is precisely in the furtherance of a law enforcement purposes, and the interference was motivated by an effort to impair that enforc…

An employees actions would be a matter of judgment between the company leadership and themsleves, I don't understand how it's a criminal matter. To the outside entity it's a business contract, to the company it's an internal matter if and how to deal with any specific activities of the employee.

> An employees actions would be a matter of judgment between the company leadership and themselves

There has been a few news articles (and court cases) where this question has been raised and it is not strict true. Employee actions are only actions for which the employee has been given as an task as part of their employment and role. Actions outside of that is private actions. When this end up in court, the role description and employee contract becomes very important.

A clear case example is when a doctor is looking up data on a patient. Downloading patient records from people who they are not the doctor for can be criminal and not just a breech of hospital policy, especially if they sell or transfer the data.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#305

Post by somenameforme »

saubeidl wrote: post #289
somenameforme wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company is absolutely free to choose whether or not to do business with them, but an employee acting to try to undermine them as a customer or their relationship with the business is what would open the door to all these sort of laws and consequences, especially when that relationship is precisely in the furtherance of a law enforcement purposes, and the interference was motivated by an effort to impair that enforc…

The other side of this is, if you don't obstruct, you will eventually have to be the guy saying "I was just following orders" [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders

The Nazis were engaging in systematic and large scale genocide. ICE is deporting people in the country illegally back to their home countries, free of charge. I'm not being snarky there either, immigration offenses are taken seriously worldwide and in many places you can end up in indefinite detention, required to pay for your own deportation + fines, and more. The 'penalty' being a free ticket home is a pretty sweet deal.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#306

Post by saubeidl »

somenameforme wrote: post #305
saubeidl wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other side of this is, if you don't obstruct, you will eventually have to be the guy saying "I was just following orders" [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders

The Nazis were engaging in systematic and large scale genocide. ICE is deporting people in the country illegally back to their home countries, free of charge. I'm not being snarky there either, immigration offenses are taken seriously worldwide and in many places you can end up in indefinite detention, required to pay for your own deportation + fines, and more. The 'penalty' being a free ticket home is a pretty sweet…

The Nazis started with a deportation plan [0] and building camps as well. It never starts with genocide, you slowly work up to it. The "final solution" happened once they realized the impracticablity of mass deportations.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#307

Post by donkeybeer »

belorn wrote: post #304
donkeybeer wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An employees actions would be a matter of judgment between the company leadership and themsleves, I don't understand how it's a criminal matter. To the outside entity it's a business contract, to the company it's an internal matter if and how to deal with any specific activities of the employee.

> An employees actions would be a matter of judgment between the company leadership and themselves There has been a few news articles (and court cases) where this question has been raised and it is not strict true. Employee actions are only actions for which the employee has been given as an task as part of their employment and role. Actions outside of that is private actions. When this end up in court, the role desc…

I was tempted to add this very line when I wrote my message but I hoped it would be obvious I don't mean things like illegally stealing private data. I was talking about things like "falsifying" data to the contractor, which doesn't seem like a crime to me just a contract violation.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#308

Post by throwfaraway135 »

direwolf20 wrote: post #247
throwfaraway135 wrote: post #144

I'm against this type of surveillance everywhere, but seeing the holier than thou attitude of some of the comments rubs me the wrong way. Doing basically the same for people who are on the Epstein list was OK, but now it's wrong?

Uh yeah, it's ok to track and arrest confirmed pedophiles, but not normal people at random

The last time I looked illegal immigration is still illegal.

I don't see people protesting en masse to take Clinton, Trump, Gates etc. accountable. Maxwell Ghislaine is alive and well, and they can't get a incrementing confession.

But somehow people loose their shit when some MS-13 gang members get arrested.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#309

Post by mindslight »

account42 wrote: post #250
direwolf20 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are German, then you are probably blind to the similarities between current German politics and the Nazis, so this is not a good point of comparison.

But it's only Nazis if you disagree with them. After all, the whole point of drawing the comparison is to shut down any possibility for discussion and nuance - "people I don't like are just like the nazis so I don't need to treat those who who doesn't fully oppose them with any respect".

> After all, the whole point of drawing the comparison [to Nazis] is to shut down any possibility for discussion and nuance

Another way of phrasing this is that it's a call to stop assuming good faith discussion on the part of the boosters, stop being derailed by pondering nuance, and focus on putting the brakes on the new Nazi movement. History doesn't repeat but we're teetering on the edge of a large-scale horrific rhyme. Regardless of one's preferred policies regarding immigration, there is zero justification for where we're at.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#310

Post by cogman10 »

homeslice69 wrote: post #284
cogman10 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a large difference in the magnitude of spending. A big chain like kroger, for example, is spending around 10 to 100M. Coke is spending around $5B. Avoiding national branded products goes a long way in avoiding contributing to the problem. Things don't need to be all or nothing.

Coke is always a discretionary purchase. Basic food staples are not. Kroger relies on national brand advertising to lure people from the perimiter of the store into junk food land.

Most (maybe not all) basic food staples have store brand alternatives. Even junk food does. Sometimes (maybe even often) those products are just repackaged version of the name brand.

If the goal is to decrease money going into advertisement budgets, then the best thing you can do is buy store brand when possible. Even if both products are ultimately made from Nestle corp, the cheaper store brand will send less money into Nestle's pockets which means less money for advertising.

That's what I mean by "avoiding nationally branded products". A package of "signature frozen peas" will taste just as good as the "birds eye green peas" without sending money to a major company (Looks like all the major companies have spun off their frozen food departments, but at one time this was a Nestle brand. I spent too much time looking into major frozen food brands :D).

The advertisement budgets for the grocers are simply a lot smaller than that of the national brands across the board. It also doesn't seem (to me at least) to have been really spent on invasive advertisements.

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