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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#301
post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

What's in the mind of European political oligarchy really?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#302
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, not to mention the fact that Chinese EVs can't be sold here... protectionism for weak American companies that can't compete globally. We've gone from an automotive superpower and the land of Henry Ford to the government propping up automakers and depriving Americans of free choice. If Chinese cars would actually be allowed to sold here they would sell like Toyota Camrys.

Protecting automakers can be considered a vital business for national security. This is not good for consumers, but relying on China for everything also carries many risks.

If China could sell it's cars here, it would spur American automakers to innovate, no? Government protectionism causes complacency

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

Perhaps people in the future will visit the US for the dieselpunk nostalgia, the same way people like seeing classic cars in Cuba.

I strongly doubt any current car will stand longevity of those cars. The maintenance entry cost of anything with integrated electronic is just several order of magnitude in complexity.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#304
post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

Not that many Americans are car enthusiasts. The most popular cars have been basic commuters for decades.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#305
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you check all around the car before setting off.

Children tend to move around.

Most people are just crap at parenting. Whenever I am moving a car backward to park or unpark my car, I ask everybody to stand at a specific place where I see them, regardless if they are adults or kids.

So yes everyone is right, yes a lots of people are just bad at taking basic safety measures but backup cameras are still a necessity because this will not change, it is even worse with people doomscrolling their smartphone while driving.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers don't realize they are getting the worst of both worlds with added weight, complexity, repairs, inefficiency, and costs along with potential reliability (ex-Toyota) Not to mention studies that show PHEV owners frequently don't plug in.

My Outlander rarely needed repairs and I always plugged it in. The car even complained about me needing to use the gazoline in the tank because it risked getting old in the tank and needed to be replaced. That was a great car. My new EV, a Subaru Solterra is great too though.

> Subaru Solterra

Looking at Doug Demuro reviews it has one the worst weekend score and one the best daily score. Amazing.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#307
post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

I wanted to replace my gas Macan with the new EV one. After a test drive I decided to just keep the gas one. As an EV it is excellent. But Porsche is known for engaging driver's cars, and without the visceral sounds and vibrations of an engine it is bland and boring. The flaws in a gas engine's power curve give it character. Letting the driver manage that power curve is fun. A perfectly linear sub-3s 0-60 with fake e…

The thing is, driving on the road is not supposed to be fun. One should go to a racetrack (or simulator) to have fun.

Unless you live in a really remote and desertic place, there are just too much people on the road nowadays.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#308
post #143
post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

What is crazy about some of these old car brands is that they have some IP that would sell like hotcakes. Aircooled 911s went from 30k cars to 130k cars on the used market over the last 10 years. If they managed to work around crash regulations, maybe with some stroking of Donalds ego right now, they'd be making money hand over fist off those old designs. I can't exactly remember the situation but I'm pretty sure the…

No. These cars are desirable and valuables as collectibles for the very reason they are a dying breed and we can't won't make them as they used to.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#309
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, not to mention the fact that Chinese EVs can't be sold here... protectionism for weak American companies that can't compete globally. We've gone from an automotive superpower and the land of Henry Ford to the government propping up automakers and depriving Americans of free choice. If Chinese cars would actually be allowed to sold here they would sell like Toyota Camrys.

Until very recently, tariffs on American cars sold in China were much higher than vice-versa. The new US tariffs were an attempt to even the playing field. I think most people would agree that no tariffs would be good, but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy.

Yes, but China has always been straightforward in that they believe in protectionism. It's part of their system.

In contrast, in the West (at least until a few years ago), we have been fed the discourse that free market without protectionism is the best model, and protectionist countries are sabotaging themselves. And I don't know how it was in the US, but in the EU this caused hardship to many people. Entire countries pretty much sacrificed whole industries to the free market gods, because it was more efficient to bring the merchandise from elsewhere. Opponents who were defending their livelihood were framed as reactionaries that were opposing +X% GDP gains or didn't want "free competition" (often against products with unbeatable prices due to being made in countries with totally different rules and labor standards).

Now it seems that the system that supposedly was so bad gives an unfair advantage, so if others apply it the only defense is to apply it as well... but the free market apologists won't shut up anyway, in spite of the obvious cognitive dissonance.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't most people already have a plug in their garage? Good point, most people without garages should continue buying hybrid or ICE, because EVs aren't for them yet.

When will EVs be for them?

I was being a bit facetious, but I guess when either they're fortunate to live extremely close to a charger, or they have one in building, but then it seems like they'd be fighting for parking and charging space, which doesn't seem to me to compete favorably in terms of practicality. Or the housing market finally crashes and there's a viable path out of renting for those that want to do so.
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