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Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

cnbc.com

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Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#301

Post by asadotzler »

mbirth wrote: post #80
Workaccount2 wrote: post #58

If nothing else, this was likely driven by Google being the most stable of the AI labs. Gemini is objectively a good model (whether it's #1 or #5 in ranking aside) so Apple can confidently deliver a good (enough) product. Also for Apple, they know their provider has ridiculously deep pockets, a good understanding and infrastructure in place for large enterprises, and a fairly diversified revenue stream. Going with An…

I was more thinking about this being driven by the fact that Google pays Apple $20B a year for being the pre-selected search engine and this way, Apple still gets $19B and a free AI engine on top.

It was 20 billion dollars years ago, 2022. There's little doubt it's closer to $25B now, perhaps more.

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#302

Post by nozzlegear »

natch wrote: post #160
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All user data is E2E encrypted, so the government literally cannot force this. This has been the source of numerous disputes [0, 1] that either result in the device itself being cracked [0] (due to weak passwords or vulnerabilities in device-level protection) or governments attempting to ban E2E encryption altogether [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org…

E2E encrypted is nothing if key escrow is happening. Why did they change their wording from: Nobody can read your data, not even Apple to: Apple cannot read your data. You know why.

If they didn't want you to think key escrow might be possible, why wouldn't they just leave the wording the way it was? Why go through the effort and thereby draw attention to it? The court system doesn't use sovcit rules where playful interpretation of wording can get a trillion dollar corporation out of a lawsuit or whatever.

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#303

Post by LeoPanthera »

Fiveplus wrote: post #42

The writing was on the wall the moment Apple stopped trying to buy their way into the server-side training game like what three years ago? Apple has the best edge inference silicon in the world (neural engine), but they have effectively zero presence in a training datacenter. They simply do not have the TPU pods or the H100 clusters to train a frontier model like Gemini 2.5 or 3.0 from scratch without burning 10 year…

Google says: "Apple Intelligence will continue to run on Apple devices and Private Cloud Compute, while maintaining Apple's industry-leading privacy standards."

So what does it take? How many actual commitments to privacy does Apple have to make before the HN crowd stops crowing about "theater"?

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#306

Post by asadotzler »

dylan604 wrote: post #61
gnabgib wrote: post #2

Related: Apple nears $1B Google deal for custom Gemini model to power Siri (71 points, 2 months ago, 47 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45826975

Is this another one of those AI deals where no real money changes hands? In this case, doesn't this just offset the fee Google pays Apple for having their search as the default on Apple devices?

I'll wager the accounting for the two contracts is separate. There may be stipulations that connect the two, but the payment from Google to Apple of $20B+/yr is a long-established contract (set of contracts, actually0 that Apple would not jeopardize for the relatively small Google to Apple $1B/yr contract, one still unproven and which may not stand the test of time.

So, yes, practically speaking, the Apple to Google payment offsets a tiny fraction of the Google to Apple payment, but real money will change hands for each and very likely separately.

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#307

Post by thinkindie »

robertlagrant wrote: post #292
thinkindie wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

several years after that they still have their own Maps though, they didn't go back to Google Maps.

That's the point of what the person you replied to is saying.

it's hard but not impossible. Unless Apple didn't learn the Google Maps/Maps lesson.

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#308

Post by pstuart »

ghaff wrote: post #220
Melatonic wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has also never been big on the server side equation of both software and hardware - don't they already outsource most of their cloud stack to Google via GCP ? I can see them eventually training their own models (especially smaller and more targeted / niche ones) but at their scale they can probably negotiate a pretty damn good deal renting Google TPUs and expertise.

Xserve was always kind of a loss. Wrote a piece about it a number of years back. It became pretty much a commodity business--which isn't Apple.

With Thunderbolt 5 and M5 Ultras, Apple could be building lower cost clusters that could possibly scale enough while keeping a lower power budget. Obviously that can't compete with NVIDIA racks, but for mobile consumer inference maybe that would be enough?

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#309

Post by bombcar »

tefkah wrote: post #216
bombcar wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what AI involves, but "training" sounds like a one-and-done - but how is the result "stored"? If you have trained up a Gemini, can you "clone" it and if so, what is needed? I was under the impression that all these GPUs and such were needed to run the AI, not only ingest the data.

Theoretically it would be much less expensive to just continue to run the existing models, but ofc none of the current leaders are going to stop training new ones any time soon.

So are we on a hockey stick right now where a new model is so much better than the previous that you have to keep training?

Because almost every example of previous cases of things like this eventually leveled out.

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#310

Post by asadotzler »

throwfaraway4 wrote: post #266
lvl155 wrote: post #261

This is the sad state of Apple right now. It is ridiculous that they basically had unlimited access to TSMC and achieved nothing in AI. Management is a joke.

Ask the shareholders if they're a joke

Tim Cook replaced paying customers with Wall St. That's not a win for any of us except Apple shareholders, a number far, far lower than Apple users.
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