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Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

eupolicy.social

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Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#301
post #270

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

Modern cars break down less than older cars -- they are more reliable, not less. They generate more power, with better emissions. They have a wealth of creature comforts and features beyond what 1980s cars had.

They’re also vastly safer

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiat Panda 4x4 too.

I had a Panda from the early 2010s and that was my exact thought reading this thread: sounds like a fiat panda. Surprised to see this downvoted. Did they change so much?

Downvoted because they’re non-existent for north americans

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are purposefully obtuse and I'm not sure what joy you derive from it but just to take your silly strawmen: Laptops for the most part are put together from standardized parts and you can exchange the major ones (CPU, RAM, storage and often even the displays) from one brand to another and it will work. And if you go to desktop computers the range of parts that can be swapped out between manufacturers increases even…

I'm sorry, but I'm not being obtuse nor making strawman arguments. I'm trying to explain an industry I'm familiar with. If you're going to start with personal attacks or calling my input "silly" I don't know why I bother, but here goes: > Laptops for the most part are put together from standardized parts and you can exchange the major ones (CPU, RAM, storage and often even the displays) from one brand to another and…

You say that 'there are not 100's of different engines' -> but there are 100's of different engines, even within the same manufacturer and in spite of the core being the same it is often extremely hard to swap an engine of the same basic geometry because of the different sensors, bolt patterns and so on. It would be trivial to require those bolt patterns to be standardized and for ECUs to be standardized to the point that they could be swapped between vehicles. It is the - in my opinion ridiculous - differentiation that leads to vendor lock-in resulting in the fact that even though the underlying component is supplied by Bosch and it is absolutely identical you still can't move it from one vehicle to another because they spliced a different plug onto it and other lock-in increasing tricks.

The automotive world is full of such bullshit and given that there is no need for it (wouldn't it be nice to be able to swap an engine from any brand into any other based on a generic form factor and standardized interface) it is clearly all about protecting the profits.

When you go to a VAG garage with an Audi the exact same part from Bosch will be 1.5 times as expensive (as will the mechanic that puts it in) as when you go there with a VW. And if you go there with a Porsche the difference will be even larger. And of course there will be tricks to make sure that the cheap parts don't fit the more expensive model. And that's within what is essentially one company, once you go outside of that your ability to swap parts without access to a machine shop drastically diminishes.

That transmission you mention is a great example: you could swap it out in theory, but in practice the manufacturers have made it impossible to do so, parts have their own identity, talk to the ECU using custom protocols and so on.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (not counting emergency and service vehicles) Just gotta read the last line too :P

What do you mean, at a practical level, when you set out your "priority list" above? Are you referring to the use of congestion charges to discourage private motor vehicle use?

Not OP, but I don't think congestion charges are the most important part here. It's more about what type of infrastructure to prioritize resources and work for. Basically, the idea is that the town or city should not spend money on building parking, for example, and instead spend it on bike lanes, or two more busses, or some extension to the metro line.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#307
post #270

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

Modern cars break down less than older cars -- they are more reliable, not less. They generate more power, with better emissions. They have a wealth of creature comforts and features beyond what 1980s cars had.

Both are true. New vehicles are more reliable and safer. New vehicles are vastly harder to maintain by a home auto mechanic.

I don't know enough to say whether realizability requires lower DIYability.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#308
post #121
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESC (electronic stability control) didn't become common until about 2010 to 2015. It makes a really big difference for safety -- EU estimates are that it's saved more than 15,000 lives. Let's backport that one too. :)

I bought my first real wheel drive car in 2014. Still have it. It's not a race car. About 170hp. It struggles at the smallest curves. Good thing it has traction control and esp. Except all the front wheel cars I had before, one even slightly more powerful and smaller, never needed any of that. Never ever buying a rwd again. (Enthusiast forums of the brand tell me I don't know how to drive RWD. Skill issue. :D)

Rwd is definitely sketchier in certain circumstances, especially going uphill in low traction. Also pretty bad in the snow generally. but I’ve only had issues going around corners when it was very wet and I was driving faster that the speed limit. If you are running into traction issues driving normally (ie not flooring it) I would recommend having your tires and alignment checked, even with RWD that should not be happening in my experience.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don’t we start with computers and software first? Let’s eliminate all these different laptop options and force every manufacturer to use 3 government-mandated chassis sizes: Small, medium, and large. Make parts interchangeable with standard connectors and power budgets. Nobody is allowed to innovate or customize because we must be standardized. Where do you think we’d be now? Typing on our highly optimized MacBoo…

You do this by standardizing interconnection at both the physical and protocol levels, and leave everything else alone. Then you allow both to evolve at a reasonable rate (maybe 10 years for the physical interconnects, maybe less for protocol since back compat is much easier there). This leaves people free to tweak form factors, energy efficiency, system capacities etc. etc. We don't need to care about the final resu…

> Then you allow both to evolve at a reasonable rate (maybe 10 years

Automakers already get 10-15 years or more out of their platforms. The same series of engines will be used across the their lineup for a very long time. Transmissions are shared across car makers, and so on.

That’s not a problem. The request above was for all auto manufacturers to have to fit into a standardized format.

It would be like telling Intel, AMD and Apple that they all had to use the same CPU socket for 5 years and they all had to be interchangeable.

Do you think we’d have MacBook Pros with all day battery life that also have 500MB/s of memory bandwidth if the company was forced to use a standard CPU socket that all manufacturers agreed on? Definitely would not. Some other country without such requirements would be enjoying them, though.

It’s a demand that makes less sense the closer you are to the subject matter.

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