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Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

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Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

#301

Post by al_borland »

IgorPartola wrote: post #258
76SlashDolphin wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Pixel 8 running GrapheneOS and it does most of the above: - slightly lesser build quality than my iPhone 15 Pro but comparable - doesn't funnel data to Google unless you explicitly let it, you can circumvent a lot of the Google Play stuff by restricting permissions and using Aurora Store - is backed by, well, Google and the Graphene team porting over security updated. They have a fairly good track record by…

Oh that is quite interesting. How difficult was it to get Graphene on it? How difficult would it be for a non-technical person to do it and use it?

LTT did a video on GrapheneOS recently[0]. The conclusion was basically that it’s a trade off between privacy and convenience. It will require more tinkering and things that don’t “just work”. While I haven’t used GrapheneOS, it doesn’t seem like something a non-technical user would have the patience for, unless they were into the idea of picking up a new hobby of managing their phone’s OS.

[0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gDR6V5OdnYg

Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

#302

Post by freehorse »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #297
freehorse wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People usually don't compile their browsers from source anyway. And of course, technically, a program can check whether monitoring tools are running and adapt its behaviour accordingly, but this is malware territory and it makes no sense for any reputable browser. Also, technically, one can do that on router level anyway and not have this issue. So yes, I would say that analyzing the network is enough.

"People usually don't compile their browsers from source anyway." But this is a forum that includes people who do compile their browser from source As such, if promoting a new browser here, it should be expected people may ask about the availability of source code I use an HTML browser that is a 2M static binary It compiles quickly and easily on all the computers I own, and these computers are underpowered This allow…

I was answering to a specific comment asking about whether one absolutely needs the source code to know that there is no telemetry. Not about whether it is reasonable or useful to want to have the source code in general.

Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

#303

Post by cyberpunk »

rixthefox wrote: post #131
mistercheph wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can work around the Widevine issues by pirating the content you're interested in.

This is the way. Widevine is a cancer that only serves to lock down the browser market to a small handful of web engines that have been approved by Google. If your browser isn't based on Chrome, Firefox, or Safari you're out of luck. Most people will not use a browser that can't open youtube videos and they know and exploit this with extreme precision.

I really thought I was done with the wild seas back when Netflix was new, but turns out I can't kick my put.io subscription even 10 years later.

Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

#304

Post by cyberpunk »

zamadatix wrote: post #124
presbyterian wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube does, Netflix doesn't

If you're using a "common browser" on Linux (Firefox/Chrome) Netflix should work, just at 720p for most of the content. If you're using a minor Chromium based fork the customized Chromium package provided by your distro it probably doesn't have Widevine by default. The same is true for running a vanilla Chromium build on Windows, the big difference is the quality of content you can get on Windows can be higher than 7…

Yeah I'm probably switching over to a BSD desktop -- So it'll be 720p on a 5k display. Sad face. Arrrr. It's the pirate lyphe for me...

Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

#305

Post by TingPing »

Fiveplus wrote: post #35

This is a healthy thing to happen to the Linux browser ecosystem imho. We talk a lot about browser diversity, but on Linux and Windows, it is a lie. You have firefox (gecko) and fifty flavors of chromium. Webkit on Linux has essentially been relegated to embedded devices or the GNOME epiphany browser, which I'll admit while is a noble effort, lags a bit in the stability and power-user features department. Big reason…

> Even if you never use orion, you want this to succeed because it forces WebKitGTK upstream to get better, which benefits the entire open source ecosystem.

I don’t understand this logic. AFAIK Orion is doing downstream work and has not contributed to WebKitGTK. Hopefully that changes but we’ll see.

Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

#306

Post by TingPing »

justinclift wrote: post #279
Fiveplus wrote: post #35

This is a healthy thing to happen to the Linux browser ecosystem imho. We talk a lot about browser diversity, but on Linux and Windows, it is a lie. You have firefox (gecko) and fifty flavors of chromium. Webkit on Linux has essentially been relegated to embedded devices or the GNOME epiphany browser, which I'll admit while is a noble effort, lags a bit in the stability and power-user features department. Big reason…

> The sticking point like always will be media playback (read: DRM/widevine). That is the graveyard where Linux browsers go to die. The Orion Alpha is happily playing back Youtube video's at 4k for me out of the box. Confirmed it just now with this one to make sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFG3Ah-zf18

Youtube with 4k has always worked. Renting commercial videos on Youtube uses DRM.

Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

#307

Post by Gerard0 »

radlad wrote: post #118
mikae1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Webkit on Linux has essentially been relegated to embedded devices or the GNOME epiphany browser Don't forget about https://falkon.org . It's a browser I enjoy using. WebExtension support will be big if it lands in Orion though. EDIT: apparently Orion is not open source. Not particularly interested in a closed source browser, TBH. In 2022 they said they plan to open source "when there is merit"[1], whatever that me…

As a Kagi user for years now, I am very interested in a Firefox/Chrome competitor but I will absolutely not use Orion until it is open source.

This. Super happy with Kagi but won't use until it is open source.

Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

#308

Post by TingPing »

rigelbm wrote: post #299
nevon wrote: post #211

Been a Kagi subscriber for a while, and am supportive of a more diverse browser ecosystem. However, I won't be using this browser as long as it is closed source. Honestly, the arguments made by the founder (I believe he's the founder anyway. I may be wrong) in the related feedback thread kind of soured me a little bit on Kagi. The arguments were essentially: 1. It's a lot of work to maintain an open source project ac…

As a Kagi long time user, and a Linux die-hard, I don't get the obsession with having everything being open source. This will sound overly critic (sorry before hand), but what do you want the source code for? Do you read the source code of every open source applications you use? Do you compile all of them to make sure there are no shenanigans? If you do, congratulations, you are a member of a very niche group of peop…

As a WebKit developer Id literally fix bugs and make it better. We cannot, so they just lost interest from most developers that could help them.

Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

#309

Post by espadrine »

diabllicseagull wrote: post #213
pbronez wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found it https://cdn.kagi.com/flatpaks/oriongtk.alpha.external.flatpa...

I gave it a try. it's super rough around the edges. I noticed a much higher cpu usage compared to firefox. nevertheless, it's super promising.

My bar for super-rough is Servo, which doesn't have password autofill… and doesn't render the Orion page right.

Orion is less rough, but the color scheme doesn't work, and it doesn't have an omnibar (as in: type in the address bar, enter, and it shows search results).

Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux

#310

Post by drdaeman »

notrealyme123 wrote: post #291
drdaeman wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my skepticism but I don’t believe that’s a realistic threat model. Yea, purely hypothetically that could happen. But realistically, why would someone do that - what’s the point? Especially so it’s severe enough to warrant a serious legal battle that takes more than a few sternly worded DMCA-like emails to hosting providers? Mind you, if we’re talking about hypotheticals, someone can ship a differently branded…

For example: If it is open source, it will end for in LLMs and will be used in other browser variants (bigger and smaller). Any USP of the code itself will be gone.

What’s this “it” are you talking about, exactly?

If LLMs hoover up removal of auto-shipped telemetry (currently the main selling point) then I’d say that’d be a reason to publish and submit this to every indexer imaginable ASAP ;-) Shame it’s a bit of absence of code so it’s nor really possible to submit anywhere.

And other features are worthy because they’re implemented ideas, not because of their actual implementations. Like programmable buttons or overflow menus - I’m pretty sure there’s no secret sauce there, and it’s extremely unlikely one can just grab some parts of that and move it to a different product - adapting the code from Orion’s codebase would likely take more effort than just implementing the feature anew.

Most code is just some complicated plumbing, not some valuable algorithmic novelty. And this plumbing is all about context it lives in.

The value is usually not in the code, but in the product itself. Some exceptions apply, of course.

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