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Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

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Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#301

Post by ok123456 »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #24
freedomben wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, this was one of the first things I thought of too. I remember well the jokes about Perot being crazy, frequently used to dismiss his views. I'll never forget talking with an educated Perot voter (a friend of mine) at the time and actually being confronted with the real views, not a shallow strawman, and realizing I didn't have any good answers because I hadn't actually thought about it. That was a good matura…

He was't crazy, just thin-skinned and not suited for politics.

The GOP/Bushes blackmailed him into dropping out of the election by using his daughter, threatening to out her as a lesbian right before her wedding. How thick a skin do you need for that?

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#302

Post by bflesch »

mullingitover wrote: post #287
tasty_freeze wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a liberal and I've lived in Texas (Austin) for 20 years. It is infuriating when I am on some liberal-oriented forum, someone says we should force Texas out of the union or whatever, and everyone cheers. ~40% of Texans didn't vote for Trump, and in absolute numbers are a greater number of liberals than most other states in their entirety ... yet my supposed fellows want to write us off. Ugly indeed.

Are you...doing to liberal-oriented forums what they do to Texas? Tarring everyone with the same brush?

Would you even call HN a liberal forum? It is full to the brim with profiteers who have no ethical framework except making money for US-based VCs.

The past years have shown that many have no problem to change affiliation with the zeitgeist. I feel many Americans are secretly pro-Trump as long as they make money. If there would be more liberals in US tech we would see much more leaks coming from companies such as Apple, Facebook, Reddit, Google, about how the senior leadership is supporting the government policies.

For example with Facebook it needed a woman to get sexually harrassed out of her job and write a book called "careless people" so that it is reported that Facebook engineers were actively embedded with the Trump campaign while at the same time democrat voters (black people) were shown literal fake news ads to keep them away from voting.

I have not seen one Facebook senior engineer being ostracized on HN for working on the trump campaign. Everbody made their millions and joined the next big thing, with us worshipping their amazing FAANG credentials.

If the people who worked on DOGE do a "SHOW HN:" nobody would call it out.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#303

Post by cootsnuck »

closeparen wrote: post #219
runako wrote: post #36

There are so many underlying changes to the established relationship between Labor and Capital in the US that would be a necessary part of keeping jobs here that it would effectively make us a completely different country. For example -- suppose one could snap one's fingers and "bring back" millions of manufacturing jobs. What would lead one to conclude those would be the kind of "good jobs" everyone is envisioning?…

A line cook makes no more burgers per hour, a hairdresser delivers no more or better haircuts, and a daycare worker watches no more children concurrently than they could have 25 years ago. Meanwhile the Magnificent 7 have emerged. Baumol effects might have raised wages a bit, sure. How could the relative positions of these workers not fall as all these tech-enabled and scale-enabled neighbors come on to the scene? Th…

> The whole concept of buying services from people is either that their time is worth less than yours

And if everyone else's time has become more valuable then too has the time that is being saved by buying services.

If my time as a programmer is worth significantly more now than it was 25 years ago, then the time I save by buying services is worth more.

There's a reason that someone making $1mil/year is going to be willing to pay more for the exact same haircut that someone making $70k/year also gets. The time being saved is worth more to them.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#304

Post by tharmas »

The $US as world's reserve currency played a big part in why manufacturing was offshored. As manufacturing processes mature they move to the periphery. Because of the reserve currency status of the $US, this periphery meant outside the United States.

The periphery got the jobs and the US Elite got the $$$'s. What should've happened though was the Elites should've invested their cash into in technologies. Sure they did to some extent (NVIDIA is an example) but mostly what they did was pile their money into fixed assets, hence the inflation (e.g. housing) we have today.

The Blame lies with the Investment class elites, the Bankers, and the Donor Controlled politicians. Washington D.C. (Donor Controlled).

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#305

Post by bpt3 »

ghaff wrote: post #163
terminalshort wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you wouldn't. You, and everybody else, would see several shirts that looked basically the same and not pick the expensive one without giving it any more thought. If you think I'm wrong, go start a company that makes shirts in the US. You will make a fortune because demand is completely unmet.

Even expensive brands are usually made overseas. I looked at a couple of random pieces of expensive Patagonia outerwear in my closet. One was made in Vietnam. The other in Bangladesh. Sure, you can get custom/semi-custom dress clothing made in the US. Probably other things (at an eye-watering premium). Which may be OK if you buy very little clothing. But mostly forget about going into a store and picking things off t…

Right, because there is virtually no difference in quality so companies go with the lower labor costs (as does basically everyone else on earth who is looking to have a task completed).

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#306

Post by swagasaurus-rex »

What’s missing from these conversations are the cost of living.

We’ve financialized the housing market, meaning the very basic needs of shelter now rises in price in accordance to the market. If tech workers make 2x or 3x the median annual salary, it makes housing prices rise for everybody else in the city.

In order to pay a “living wage” employers have to pay enough for their workers to make rent and groceries. In america, one of the highest GDP per capita in the world, the “living wage” is somewhere between 3x to 10x the offshore salary.

If you could house millions of people at the bare minimum cost, if you could provide them food and healthcare at prices that aren’t inflated, then the living wage doesn’t need to be so high.

We talk a lot about raising the minimum wage. What about lowering the minimum costs? That would mean a less stressful life for workers and cheaper labor for employers.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#307

Post by unethical_ban »

mullingitover wrote: post #287
tasty_freeze wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a liberal and I've lived in Texas (Austin) for 20 years. It is infuriating when I am on some liberal-oriented forum, someone says we should force Texas out of the union or whatever, and everyone cheers. ~40% of Texans didn't vote for Trump, and in absolute numbers are a greater number of liberals than most other states in their entirety ... yet my supposed fellows want to write us off. Ugly indeed.

Are you...doing to liberal-oriented forums what they do to Texas? Tarring everyone with the same brush?

In a word, no.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#308

Post by marcosdumay »

brightball wrote: post #118
runako wrote: post #36

There are so many underlying changes to the established relationship between Labor and Capital in the US that would be a necessary part of keeping jobs here that it would effectively make us a completely different country. For example -- suppose one could snap one's fingers and "bring back" millions of manufacturing jobs. What would lead one to conclude those would be the kind of "good jobs" everyone is envisioning?…

Manufacturing jobs bring the entire supply chain of the manufacturer with them. The area where I live, Greenville, SC used to be the textile capital of the world and then became essentially destitute when the entire industry offshored. BMW and Michelin locating their US HQ here essentially rebuilt this entire corner of the state with jobs and associated supply chains. Now, Greenville is booming with a more diverse ec…

To answer the GP, you'll have to take a look at why the entire industry offshored at the same time.

What makes you think the problem that caused the industry to go won't also cause it to fail if somebody forces them to stay or tries to bring them back? Also, why one industry leaving made people there destitute?

Those things are always more complicated than they seem.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#309

Post by bpt3 »

afavour wrote: post #153
gruez wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If I had more disposable income I'd buy more made in the US products but my budget simply doesn't allow it. How's that much different than the parent's claim of "The consumers outsource every time they select for cost."?

It isn't. I'm saying that people select for cost because corporations are actively engaged in pooling resources for the rich. If they didn't people wouldn't need to select for cost as much as they do.

When do you intentionally overpay for goods or services?

Are you haggling with your mechanic, landlord/mortgage lender, or grocery store to pay them more money than they're asking for, or do you purposely seek out suppliers that do not provide the offering with the best value?

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#310

Post by almosthere »

Supermancho wrote: post #154
afavour wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the party who supports raising wages also supports near limitless spending on the less fortunate countries. You cannot have both. Do they? Who advocates near limitless spending? Last I checked foreign aid was less than 1% of the federal budget.

It's about 1.2% in 2024 with 0.24% being Israel.

.24 of the 1.2?

I would have believed Ukraine to have been the largest.

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