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After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

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Re: After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

#301

Post by egeozcan »

tame3902 wrote: post #261
registeredcorn wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding > We share similar struggles, though I recognize that Turkey's situation involves much less external interference than Iran's... ours is mostly our own doing. Can you explain what you mean by Turkey having issues "of it's own doing"? Do you mean something like corruption, or some other factor? I know very little about Turkey or the issues it faces, other than some cataclysmic earthquakes.

I don't know much about Turkey, but I assume they are referring to Erdogan. Turkey was a pretty solid democracy and he turned it into an authoritarian regime. Erdogan also has some interesting ideas about the economy. A quote from his Wikipedia article: "He has pushed the theory that inflation is caused by high interest rates, an idea universally rejected by economists. This, along with other factors such as excessiv…

Erdoğan is not the first person to mess up the economy of the country, but extreme deep corruption and antidemocratic playbook were never experienced before. If you ask his base, everything's fine though.

Re: After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

#302

Post by Earw0rm »

dredmorbius wrote: post #106
baxtr wrote: post #73

Maybe it’s selection bias but: The saddest thing about Iran I’ve noticed is the stark contrast between the current state of the country and the intelligence of the people I’ve met from this country.

This is often the case. Consider too the selection bias in those you've met from Iran, presumably outside that country. Both on ideological and socioeconomic / aptitude bases. I'd first encountered a similar observation in the 1970s or 1980s, then directed largely at those from Soviet Bloc countries encountered in the West. Typically these were academics, engineers, or similarly highly-skilled professionals, who pres…

It underlines much anti-immigrant sentiment today, in that immigrants are a self-selected sample of the hardest working and most motivated people from their country of origin, whichever country that might be.

There's a lot of Americans here in London, from all over the US, and virtually none of them are anything at all like the stereotypical flyover-state USian - and yet in the US itself, there's plenty of those. Heck, go to any of the countries where smart, hard-working immigrants are said to come from and you'll find plenty of dumb, lazy or just not-that-capable people

So it's almost inevitable that e.g. a Somali who ends up in Leeds is going to be smarter, more motivated and harder working than both the average Leeds native and the average Somali.

Re: After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

#303

Post by Paradigma11 »

smugma wrote: post #173
corimaith wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Mossadegh was appointed by the Shah (who was still head of state), but his own autocratic actions such as dissolving parliament and giving himself autocratic powers pushed most political forces against him that a confrontation was inevitable. There is a reason the military stood back as he was disposed. Furthermore, the Shah did actually have the legal right to fire Mossadegh, when je ignored that the situation w…

From my understanding your retelling of history is a minority view. For instance, it is in conflict with Wikipedia. It’s commonly accepted that Mossadegh was thrown out by a coup and that Khomenei seized power through a revolution.

There has been a release of archived official US diplomatic communications a few years ago that paint a rather mixed picture where the embassy was convinced the uprising had failed and the next days there were surprising marches in support of the shah that succeeded in the end.

Re: After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

#304

Post by Paradigma11 »

vkou wrote: post #242
breppp wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally the Saudis aren't that great supporters of terror as they are made out to be, Qatar would be a better example. The most important difference is that the deranged things the Saudis are doing aren't aimed at the West which makes them useful allies, also their current ruler is enacting reforms while Iran is only going backwards Regarding nationalizing, Egypt had done that and has successfully jumped ship to th…

Egypt has always had one foot in each camp. The US' treatment of Cuba is the better example. It's doing none of the things the parent poster listed, yet it's still treated by the US as a pariah state. Uncle Sam doesn't care about how you treat women, or whether you have elections, but he deeply cares about you taking some corporation's stuff 70 years ago . That is the original sin that can never be atoned for. (For a…

Cuba was an incredible active player for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_Cuba

Re: After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

#305

Post by JumpCrisscross »

vintermann wrote: post #196
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> exactly the same any state with "western culture" would have done in the same situation Until like a couple years ago, autarky was generally not in the Western playbook. It’s a stupid idea that tends to be embraced by stupid people. The only ones who have done it sustainably are the Kims, as a nuclear monarchy over a totalitarian state.

They have not been in the same situation, and that is sufficient explanation. No cultural geists need to be posited. The point of autarky isn't that you want to isolate yourself from the world, but that because you credibly could, you're in a much stronger negotiating position in all those mutually beneficial deals you would like to make.

> that because you credibly could, you're in a much stronger negotiating position in all those mutually beneficial deals you would like to make

Except it doesn't put one in a stronger position. It systematically weakens the economy. It only makes sense for domestic power-consolidation since a poor economy that can't trade with anyone except the state is entirely beholden to whoever controls the state.

Stupid idea. Stupid people.

Re: After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

#306

Post by imtringued »

therobots927 wrote: post #192
ch4s3 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately comments like this deny the agency of people who actually make decisions in these countries.

When a country with vastly superior resources intervenes in the affairs of a country with less, then it tips the scales in an unnatural way. Do they depend on greedy, self interested members of Iranian society to succeed? Of course. But that doesn’t excuse western behavior at all.

During WW2 the US leveled 1/3 of all buildings in Japan including most of the manufacturing industry. That didn't stop Japan from rebuilding and coming back stronger. The same is true of Germany, except East Germany turned out to be an abject failure.

Re: After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

#307

Post by imtringued »

vintermann wrote: post #96
Someone wrote: post #12

> However, unpublished national observations revealed groundwater depletion in some plains from as early as the 1950s. This coincided with the gradual replacement of Persian qanats, which were sustainable groundwater extraction systems and UNESCO World Cultural Heritage sites9, with (semi)deep wells. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/irn/ira... says Iran’s population today is over five times that o…

And the reason qanats weren't sufficient anymore, was that they pursued a policy of food independence, due to sanctions/a desire for political autonomy. I'm not so sure they could have done much different.

Afforestation, green houses, swales, center pivot irrigation and no till agriculture are highly effective methods that conserve water or let it accumulate in the local area.

Dams are highly ineffective when the goal is water conservation. Censorship and punishment are also highly ineffective methods for water conservation.

Re: After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

#308

Post by geraneum »

ch4s3 wrote: post #290
geraneum wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mossadegh was elected but was also illegally trying to dissolve parliament. You’re being too liberal with meaning of “illegal” here. There was a referendum to dissolve the Parliament then.

A referendum held outside of the legal process after he probably lost the previous election.

And what did people vote for in that “outside of legal process” referendum?

edit: typo

Re: After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

#309

Post by imtringued »

mythrwy wrote: post #185
meteyor wrote: post #8

Though the problems of the world are increasingly complex, the solutions remain embarrassingly simple. - Bill Mollison

What's the simple solution here? Starve the majority of humanity to death with permaculture nonsense?

This is a pretty weird take in a HN submission about modern agricultural practices causing drought in urban Iran. Like, the problem you're suggesting is already happening, right now, except it is water related not about food.

Re: After ruining a treasured water resource, Iran is drying up

#310

Post by neoromantique »

nephihaha wrote: post #278
neoromantique wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? If anything, evaporated water could lead to more rainfall in Iran, not less.

It would have to be a lot more than that. As a rule, rain is produced by large lakes and seas, and some evaporation from tree cover. At a guess, I suppose Iran would get precipitation from the Gulf and Caspian, maybe the Mediterranean to a lesser extent, and some of their water renewal must be off snow melt. I flew over Iran many years ago. Much of it reminded me of central Australia. Very arid and desolate, but beau…

My argument is not that said evaporation would make any sort of measurable improvement for Iran water situation, it is that it would not make it worse. I agree that there are local problems with water access, but that is a local concern, not a blank "AI/Datacentres bad" as it is being pushed right now.
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